Heeres Flak - Wide pin

[hunmilitaria]

Hi,

One of my friend have this badge long time ago.
I need some opinion about this. I don't know this type.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi hunmilitaria,

Interesting example. Looks like a Rettenmaier (aka "flatback") but the reverse hardware is not what we normally see on their Heeres flak badges. However, The catch looks like what we know from Pforzheim-based makers and the pin reminds me of BH Mayer badges, another pforzheim-based maker so I tend to like what I am seeing so far. Could be a very interesting discovery and possibly a new variant.

Can you show some additional pics of the hinge with pin open and also the catch?

This is a zinc badge, correct?

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Interestingly enough, a BH Mayer Uboat badge was just posted for sale on the estand with similar hardware I was mentioning earlier for this Flak Badge in question. Angled shots are needed to be sure what we are looking at, but if the flak badge has hardware like this Uboat then I think it is a very good sign IMO.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Uboat hardware.

[Norm F]

Hi Tom,

That zinc U-Boat is the Schickle-design, not Mayer. There's no resemblance to the known zinc U-Boat badges of Mayer.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Thomas Durante]

Thanks for the correction Norm, as you know I am not well versed in the Kriegs badges.

Important thing is the hardware seems to match Pforzheim makers like Mayer and Schickle and that seems to jive with the obverse design of this Flak badge. Hopefully better pics of the hardware will follow and we can try to figure this one out.

Thanks

Tom

[Norm F]

Here's the rare Schickle-attributed Hilfskreuzer. Only 2 or 3 known in collections -- this one was previously Ekrogh's and now in the collection of Martin W.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Here is another one that popped up about a year ago. Same reverse hardware and same obverse design (not Rettenmaier, and I think Nick Carraway coined the term "Muppet" for this one).

Tom

[Norm F]

Hi Tom,

I remember that posting. Interesting that the two examples shown here show two variants of catch used by Schickle.

Do you think they're both made of the same base metal?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Thomas Durante]

I remember that posting. Interesting that the two examples shown here show two variants of catch used by Schickle.

Indeed, very good observation Norm.

Do you think they're both made of the same base metal?

Yes, I think both are zinc. The one that started this thread doesn't really look like zinc at first but looking at the reverse, bottom right I think I see some oxidation bubbles which would signify zinc but wanted to confirm that in my first post above.

The 2nd one looks like zinc and seems relatively porous to me.

Tom

[Norm F]

Mind you, the Flak badge was announced July 18, 1941 -- the same month Schickle was given permission to sell off his remaining stock having been barred from further production of 3rd Reich awards.

On the other hand, Nimmergut references original correspondence from Schwerin saying they received orders for Minesweeper badges July, 1940 almost two months before the announcement of the Minesweeper badge. So it remains possible likewise for Schickle to have produced a few Flaks before the badge was even announced and before ceasing production -- we just can't know for sure what really happened.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Thomas Durante]

So it remains possible likewise for Schickle to have produced a few Flaks before the badge was even announced and before ceasing production -- we just can't know for sure what really happened.

Yeah, but is that enough time to have two different catch variations? Seems very short to me, especially since this would have been relatively early wartime where materials were still plentiful. Hard to know for sure with such little info to go on. I like what I see so far though.

Tom

[Norm F]

Yeah, but is that enough time to have two different catch variations?

Sure, if they were using both catches in production simultaneously. No different from the zinc U-Boat -- a rare badge but the same two different catches. If the two different catches represented two different points in time far apart, then that would imply a larger production in which case I'd expect we'd see them more commonly.

But like you said, very little to go on at present.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Same with the "Schickle-design" zinc Minesweepers.

[Giel VW]

Tom I wanted to post the one you posted. Great piece you found there hunmilitaria!