Juncker Auxiliary Cruiser badge???

[Lorenzo Brown]

I moved this thread from the other "Auxiliary" badge thread since it is actually a new topic. I believetthat the unmarked tombak Auxiliary Cruiser badges could have been made by Juncker...
Any opinions?

I have compared the hinges and pins on my unmarked tombak Auxiliary Cruiser badge with my Juncker Coastal Artillery badge:
Here is a scan of my unmarked Auxiliary:


Here is a scan of the reverse compared to the Juncker Coastal. Notice the hinge and pins:


Here are close-ups of the hinge and pin. The measurements are virtually identical for both:

Hinge height 4.85 -4.9 mm
Hinge width 8mm
Pin length 49.5 mm
Pin thickness 1.5 mm



Also notice that the catch and rivet are very similar to the styles used on Juncker luftwaffe badges.


IMO there is ample evidence to suggest that the Auxiliary badge was made by Juncker. Not conclusive, but good evidence.

[mmiller]

Lorenzo,

Wow! Excellent photo work! Your 'detective work' has convinced me.

Mark

[Ron Birch]

Nice work Lorenzo, great pictures also. Actually it is not off the topic, I didn't think they were the same maker, but who? And if so why is it usually compared or linked to Schwerin which someone replied premium maker = more money. But since the pin hinge and rivits seem to suggest Juncker it's a good link to start with.

[W. C. Stump]

DOUBLE WOW!!!

I have spent the last hour comparing my unmarked Auxiliary Cruiser with the marked one by Schwerin. The hinge block on my marked Schwerin Auxiliary Cruiser badge in entirely different than the unmarked one I have. I also have both the C. E. Junker and Schwerin marked Coastal Artillery badges. After close inspection of all the badges, I agree that the unmarked Auxiliary Badge that are posted were produced by the firm of C. E. Junker. I would have to admit that the points you have made should convince all but the illogical minded viewers.

GOOD DETECTIVE WORK INDEED.

[Ron Birch]

Bill you have had these badges for awhile I presume, I guess learning is a never ending road. I agree the points that Lorenzo makes would make it more of a Juncker than a Schwerin. What is more important to make the link, the hinge, and the pin or the rivet? Or all combined as a whole. And why haven't we seen a marked Juncker of this badge? If someone asked me today what I think the badge is, my belief is that it would be a Juncker but not in stone. It is a great start but we need to keep looking for links to this view on the badge. And that is not illogical.

[mmiller]

The infamous eagle's beard!!!

On the unmarked badge, it looks like Juncker carried over the lesson they learned from the Heer Para Badge (oh my god, it is rearing it's ugly head again).

I swear I see the beard on the left side of the eagle's head. Maybe even the same worn tip of the lower arm of the swaz?

Mark

[Ron Birch]

Yes there is a beard, on the Aux, and the APB....but not the Junckers Coastal Art. badge. But still another point to consider, thanks Mark.

[Gordon Williamson]

Excellent clues. Juncker is as good a guess as any.

I'd agree with Ron though, I am almost convinced its Juncker but not 100% as pins/hinges are not totally reliable indicators. The trades papers of the time often carried ads from the pin makers who supplied to the medal making firms. The same pins could be used by several makers.

But, in the absence of any other evidence, Juncker certainly seems likely.

I now also know for a fact that Juncker DID make U-Boat badges including the U-Boat badge with Diamonds !, so we may discover other KM awards from this prestigeous firm.

Gordon

[George Stimson]

different pin?

The top outside edge of the pin on my Juncker Coastal Artillery Badge is not beveled like the two in Lorenzo's comparison.

George

[dm5000]

What about the catch.....

George, this pin also appears not to be beveled, and the catch is different. Does your Junkers have a catch like Lorezo's or like this one?

Thanks,
Dave

[W. C. Stump]

A TRUE COLLECTOR CONSTANTLY LEARNS

"I guess learning is a never ending road. I agree the points that Lorenzo makes would make it more of a Juncker than a Schwerin. What is more important to make the link, the hinge, and the pin or the rivet? Or all combined as a whole. And why haven't we seen a marked Juncker of this badge?"

As an advocate of learning, I try to learn something new every day. Retaining that knowledge is as important as learning. That is why that I try to document and file all the information I learn. It is a hard task indeed as I sometimes feel that I have forgotten as much as I have learned. Now with the wonders of modern technology we can electronically store and file information that can be brought up with a click of the mouse.

As per the Auxiliary Cruiser badges, I feel like Gordon that the most likelihood these badges are made by C. E. Junker. However, much more study is needed to put a 100% seal on what is a consensus of opinion. this will be our next job looking and comparing more facts to make solid facts out of a preponderance of evidence.

I have just learned something new today with Gordon's statement that C. E. Junker produced a Submarine badge and one of same in Diamonds. That startling new blows a hole in all accepted theories that only Godet and Schwerin produced the diamonds version of the U-Boat badge. I hope that Gordon will share more of his information with us on this new revelation.

[W. C. Stump]

C. E. JUNKER PIN AND HINGE

I have a C. E. Junker Coastal Artillery badge like Dave had. The pin and hinge block are basically the same as found on my unmarked Auxiliary Cruiser Badge. However, the hinge block on the marked Schwerin Auxiliary Cruiser Badge are not the same. I think that if we concentrate and look at as many marked Schwerin Auxiliary Cruiser badges and a like number of the unmarked badges thought to be Schwering produced, that we can add to the assumptions now on the table. We will them be like the blind man who said, "now I can see". We will see the true picture and answer the questions because the answers have been right under our noses all along.

[George Stimson]

Dave (dm5000)

The catch is more like yours.



Oh yeah, one more slight variation -- this badge is vaulted!

George

[Ron Birch]

Bill, I guess my point is I don't want to jump the gun with the final word it is a Juncker. What I do believe it is not a Schwerin, that I can say with confidance. The reason I started the Aux. thread was something didn't seem right with the marked and unmarked badges, now I'm just starting to look at these and can see it from the start, well something was wrong in my book because they have always from what I've seen been tabed an unmarked Schwerin. We need more info. is my opinion on it.

[W. C. Stump]

MORE INVESTIGATION IS NEEDED

Ron I think you are right, but I will bet a cold one that in the end we will see that the badges were produced by C. E. Junker. I say the preponderance of the evidence will prove it.