Schwerin U-Boat opinions please

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Posting these pics for our friend Skip who would very much appreciate your expert opinions.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[skip]

Thanks Phil,

would appreciate everybodys views on this. From the front it looks great but the back view really put me out. Looks like swaz and cannon have been done by hand, but the strange pin is a real anomilie, possibly replaced!

Skip

[George Stimson]

I agree that the front looks good.
Another difference on the back -- at least in comparison to mine -- is the different outline of the bottom of the sub and the way the inside edge of the wreath seems bevelled on this one but not on mine. (That could be differences in finishing, though, I suppose....)

[skip]

Hi George,

Thanks, I was hoping you would come in on this.

also a different way to attach the pin to the hinge, and what do you think of the burn marks around the hinge?
As I already mentioned to Phil, the yellow of the buntmetal looks just right.
What would your feelings be, good or top copy?

Skip

[George Stimson]

I don't think the different way the pin is attached to the hinge is too important of a factor. Most I've seen are not like mine. The burn marks could indicate a replaced hinge and pin, though. It sure looks good from the front. Anybody else?

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Skip,

For what it's worth, I don't like it and gut feeling tells me it's a new, high end repro. The reserve setup just does not look right imo. On the obverse, the finish and burnishing look great, but is that a casting pockmark on the middle of the bow of the boat, about in line with the inner edge of the wreath (ie obverse left hand side, about 1/2 way between the bow and the position of the deck gun)? Some measurement comparisons would be good to see for this one I think.

Regards
Mike K

[skip]

Hmmm!

I see what you mean with the little pockmark Mike, hard to say if its from casting or just a flaw.
Unfortunatly I do not have this in hand, these are just the sellers pics. He is of course 100% certain that its authentic, but I am non to sure. I will ask him for some measurements and weight.

Skip

[Ludwig]

U-Boot-Abz.

No good.

[John T]

Hi Skip:

Look at how the hinge itself is crudely finished and looks sloppy...this bothers me...note the hinge on the example posted by Gordon...granted they are different hinges but his has much more of a neat "symetrical" look to it. I do not like the pin either...it also has an "uneven" look to it that reminds me of pins I have seen on fake EK1 spanges....as the age and wear on the pin and hinge assembly seem to match the badge this would lead me to believe they have not been replaced and any indications that they have been replaced may simply be due to poor technique in the manufacturing process....

Another interesting point is the lettering on the reverse...it is obviously different than that on the example posted by Gordon, but what I notice is that the style of the first one posted tries to copy the style of the one posted by Gordon. By this I mean when we look at say the first three letters in "BERLIN" the letters on the first example are placed somewhat crooked just as was done on his example, but the "font" is obviously different...it is as if somebody tried to copy the way each letter was positioned and angled but could not get the right font. Of course I am sure that the company could have used more than one font back then. Also, the maker mark seems to have been stamped in twice as the guy did not stamp it in hard enough the first time.

Also...look at how the "68" on your piece Skip has a crude "non-artistic" look. One thing I notice about German maker marks of the period is that even if they are done in a "non-perfect" manner they still have some type of artistic merit to them. Compare the number to Gordon's example...and you will see it looks as if an amateur made the "font" for the number on your example.

I can not say for sure if the piece is good or bad, the above are just my observations.

John

[skip]

Well thanks for all that quick feedback guys, this is really a good place to assess an object with many different eyes fom all around the world.
I guess that I will probably pass on this piece, it could be a authentic one with replaced hardware but I´m not going to take the chance.
Thanks to all who responded.

Skip

[George Stimson]

One of my maxims: If there's any doubt, don't buy.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Skipy,

Thats the right decision, just walk away.

I think most short commings of this badge have been discussed accept maybe for one.

I would like to suggest that from now one we refer to this copy as the "Jesus Christ Super Star" Schwerin U-boat.

Although one of the better efforts, I have never seen an original Schwerin U-Boat eagle with hair on his head. Just look at the little bugger those aren't feathers on his head but this is just sholder long hair.

Just to compare it to here is one with feathers

KR
Philippe

[George Stimson]

That's a very good observation Philippe!

[MH184]

This pin and hinge look very similar to this fake I had of a GWL Sub badge ?

Sorry I can't cut and post the two together, I've been going back and forth looking at the pictures and there could be something in it ?

Kind regards,

Marcus

Now it's up here boy do those hinges and pins look the same, I'd be in inclined to think they are ?