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**RobertE** · 06-11-2006, 09:50 AM

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**RobertE** · 06-11-2006, 09:51 AM

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**gew98** · 06-11-2006, 07:34 PM

These look like some peices a buddy described coming out of the woodwork in colorado.
Anyhow the magazines for the type99's are very valuable. Both might have some value for bolt parts as many were deactivated where the bolts got destroyed. It's a damn shame with the may 1986 Dole amendment that such trophies are forever illegal - damn criminal of the government !.

**Bill Grist** · 06-11-2006, 07:45 PM

Wow

Robert, Very nice I hope the Vet can find the paper work.. Yes the Dole or whoever no new MG act, has committed a ton of historical MGs to the garbage pits of political/social stupidy.. What a frigging shame...BILL

**RobertE** · 06-12-2006, 06:31 AM

Thanks Bill and Gew98. I'm hoping these guns can be saved!

**r.blue** · 06-12-2006, 04:10 PM

Not trying to be funny here, but right now, without paperwork they are worth about 10 years in prison.
R.Blue

**RobertE** · 06-12-2006, 04:21 PM

Don't think so, R.Blue. I have no plans on taking possession of unregistered, fully automatic weapons, ever. As stated above, they'll be broken into parts in accordance with ATF instructions, if required. Before that happens, I'll let the owner try to find the paperwork showing legal registration.

These are nothing to screw around with, certainly. After 25 years in the Marine Corps, I never need to fire another automatic weapon in my life. But I wouldn't mind displaying a piece of LEGAL Marine Corps history on my wall! If it's even slightly uncertain, to the chop shop they go.

s/f Rob

**Alan Smith** · 06-13-2006, 03:00 PM

Registered Jap MG's

Robert,

If the veteran registered the guns as you mention, then duplicate registration paperwork can be obtained (by the vet) by requesting same from the U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives ("BATFE"). I've done this in the past with vets who lost their original registration paperwork; all it takes is for the vet to write a letter to BATFE requesting a certified copy of the paperwork for his guns.

My recomendation is that you draft a letter for the vet, addressed to BATFE and listing the guns by serial number. Also, if you want to investigate the registration status prior to having a written submission sent in, BATFE can be contacted via telephone and (ususally) if you ask nice and give them the gun's serial number and description, they will confirm "yes" or "no" whether it appears in their computerized registration records.

Please feel free to give me a call on this one as registered MG's are valuable historical items and do not need to be cut, chopped up, etc. I'll be happy to pass along some suggestions/information that I have acquired as a result of prior experiences with this type situation.

BTW: Super cool find you have here; thanks for the photos.

Alan Smith, Esq.
Jackson, MS
601-351-8932
asmith@bakerdonelson.com

**RobertE** · 06-13-2006, 08:44 PM

Hello Alan,

This was a very helpful suggestion. Based on your recommendation, I contacted the local ATF office and asked them if they could confirm that the guns were legally registered, and the agent seemed helpful and interested in helping. tomorrow I'm to provide him images of the guns number, model number, and the Marines name and he's agreed to check for me. He has already checked with his East Coast colleagues, who say a transfer is possible if they are indeed registered.

I'm hopeful but guarded. If things go south, the agent knows I intend to keep the gun parts and destroy the receiver(s). We'll see how this all turns out - again, thanks for the help Alan regardless of how the story ends.

s/f Robert

**CCN** · 06-13-2006, 11:48 PM

Are you positive that these have not been somehow demilitarized already?

**RobertE** · 06-14-2006, 12:37 AM

No, I'm not. I haven't field stripped them. It's possible someone messed with them after the war. Either way, they have to have been registered or I can't keep them. From what I've seen, however, nothing has been welded or cut.

**Alan Smith** · 06-14-2006, 09:03 AM

Contacting BATFE

Robert,

I'm kicking myself hard, as I did a very poor job of explaining the situation in my post yesterday. I really wanted you to contact me PRIOR to doing anything else re: these guns. Contacting your local BATFE field office and telling them "hey, I know about some potentially unregistered machineguns" is pretty much the worst possible course of action that could have been taken; I'm really sorry to hear that this is what has transpired.

I wanted you to contact me so I could explain how to best handle the registration inquiry to BATFE, i.e. an avenue of inquiry that would not expose you, the veteran, or anyone else to BATFE investigative scrutiny. My advice would have been to address the matter with the BATFE's National Firearms Act Branch ("NFA Branch") in West Virginia, i.e. the Branch within BATFE that specializes in these types of matters. By "calling" BATFE I was refering to the NFA Branch and some particular management-level persons who work there.

Now that local field agents have been advised of the situation, they are going to start an investigation, which means that this situation is now totally within BATFE's control with you and/or the veteran having no influence in the outcome. If BATFE takes the position that the guns are unregistered, they will be seized and cut for scrap.

If you had contacted me I would have explained how BATFE's records of machinegun registrations contain flaws, i.e. BATFE can not be counted on 100% to determine registration status. In fact, in the past couple of years this matter has been investigated by Congress, who appropriate $1million for BATFE to use to try to fix the registration errors documented in a GAO audit.

Given the record keeping situation, any inquiry re: a machinegun's registration status must be done with great care. In this regard I highly recomend the book, "Firearms Law Deskbook" by Stephen P. Halbrook, Esq., which contains in-depth treatment of the BATFE registration record errors and how to address same.

At this point all I can say is let's keep our fingers crossed that either the vet will find his original paperwork and/or BATFE will locate a copy of the registration paperwork in their records. If so, then everyone will be very happy and these items of history can be saved.

Also, please note that if BATFE can not readily identify the guns as being registered, the veteran should expect that BATFE agents are going to show up at his house and ask to inspect the guns and demand to see his registration paperwork. If he still can't find his paperwork, the agents will likely offer him the option of abandonment or criminal prosecution.

If he abandons the guns then game over, as he will have surrendered to BATFE all right, title and ownership he had in the guns (which is what most vets and/or their heirs have done when confronted by BATFE with these options). Further, assuming that he abandons, even if he later finds his registration paperwork BATFE will not give the guns back to him.

Bottom Line: Anyone who "finds" possibly unregistered machineguns here in the U.S. needs to carefully consult with someone knowledgable regarding the National Firearms Act of 1934 (i.e. the federal statute that regulates MG's) PRIOR to doing anything else and, especially, PRIOR to getting BATFE involved.

BTW: If the guns are registered the vet most likely did so during the amnesty registration period in 1968. Further, if the guns are registered then even in their current poor condition, I suspect they will sell for at least $5,000 each. If the Iwo Jima history can be properly documented and the guns kept together with the helmets, shipping crate, etc., then the value of the guns would likely double

Good luck to all involved, and please keep us informed as to the outcome of this situation.

**RobertE** · 06-14-2006, 09:52 AM

Hello Alan,

Yes, that fullsome process explanation would have been very helpful. However, the ball is rolling. If ATF want the guns that badly, they are welcome to them. If, however, they are reasonable and follow through on their offer to do the research, then that's great news.

The guns are being stripped down to the receivers, which as you're aware is the component considered to be the registered gun. If anything gets chopped, that will be it - hopefully. At a minimum, I'll have three helmets and a good story to tell my kids.

s/f Robert

**Alan Smith** · 06-14-2006, 11:08 AM

Robert,

Yes, stripping the guns for parts is the best that can be done under the present circumstances.

I hope my post, above, was not too alarmist or "gloom and doom", because if the veteran did in fact register the guns, then in all probability BATFE has the registration documents and he will encounter no problems in transfering the guns to you.

The registration errors I expounded upon are the exception and not the norm. Nonetheless, these errors mandate extreme caution by all lawful owners of machine guns when dealing with BATFE on any registration/transfer issues, especially in cases like this where the gun has never been transfered out of the hands of the original registrant and the registration took place in 1968 or earlier. Yes, there really are horror stories of BATFE agents confronting elderly folks and demanding the surrender of "unregistered" machineguns, with the citizens unltimately being able to prove that the guns were in fact registered all along.

Anyway, you have a really great find here and I sure hope it works out. Please keep in touch.

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Value of Japanese Type 96 and Type 11 Machine gun parts kits

Value of Japanese Type 96 and Type 11 Machine gun parts kits

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