Wehrmacht M41 Tropical Cap, opinions needed

[Varsity]

I was offered this M41 Tropical Cap yesterday and only took some photos with my cellphone, so sorry for the terrible quality.

I didn't really like the insignia, the colour looks a bit darker brown then the regular tropical BeVo insignia, but maybe it's caused by wear.
I found out that the marking "0/0678/5015" is the exact same as found in original LW M43 caps fromt his manufacturer.

I would like to get some opinions about this cap, is this cap all original or tampered with?

Thank you, Jim

[Varsity]

more photos

[Varsity]

more

[RGD51]

That's a nice one.

Robt.

[Varsity]

Last ones

[RGD51]

Straight piece, no problems.

Robt.

[anmarlodz]

Looks ok.

[90th Light]

Not for my collection

I do not like this tropical WH cap for a number of reasons


Have a look at these KM tropical M42 made by this maker and sold by Mike Davis, Virtual Grenadier and you will see why;

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=3985

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=357

If this maker ever did make WH examples which I doubt they did, then they would made the same way as the KM examples.
With a sweat band for WH in October 1943 of course,

Chris

[RGD51]

Those look like Franz Ritter KM caps but, for whatever reason, Heer caps are not made like KM caps. Ritter did use that faux beading to simulate the turn up on his trop KM caps and the two widely spaced rows of stitching under the visor. I've never seen that on a Heer. What stands out to me on the Heer, if anything, are the way the eyelets are set and the single line of stitching under the visor. I did hear some time back that Janke did 'repro' the Ritter Km caps so maybe the Heer could be a Janke knock off....? It's sharing the same RB #.

Robt.

[Varsity]

For what it's worth, this cap comes from a collection out of Germany, the collector has passed away recently and this cap has been in his collection for decades. Besides this cap which there was nothing in his collection which made me doubt.

[90th Light]

Those look like Franz Ritter KM caps but, for whatever reason, Heer caps are not made like KM caps. Ritter did use that faux beading to simulate the turn up on his trop KM caps and the two widely spaced rows of stitching under the visor. I've never seen that on a Heer. What stands out to me on the Heer, if anything, are the way the eyelets are set and the single line of stitching under the visor. I did hear some time back that Janke did 'repro' the Ritter Km caps so maybe the Heer could be a Janke knock off....? It's sharing the same RB #.

Robt.

Yes, that RB number could indeed be "Franz Ritter" who made their KM tropical caps always with a tight stitched single front and single back seam plus 2 rows of stitching under the visor.

Here is a maker marked, 1942 dated example also for sale on Virtual Grenadier; http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=3986

However, Franz Ritter never crimped grommets like the cap which started this thread.

There are also other differences.

If by chance, it is a special production run of WH tropical caps that they made in October 1943 then surely someone will have seen a beyond doubt example before or have another to post here ???

At this stage, "Franz Ritter" or "0/0678/5015" is not a known maker of WH tropical caps,

Chris

[RGD51]

Janke repro's have been around a long time, maybe 40+ years. My initial vibe was good but 90th light's point is worth considering amidst the paranoia plagueing the hobby these days. It's possible you won't be 100% sure of its authenticity. Whether or not that is Franz Ritters RB# I don't know but-- he was a prolific maker of headgear and may well have had contracts for various branches. See what others say.

Robt.

[RGD51]

Yes, that RB number could indeed be "Franz Ritter" who made their KM tropical caps always with a tight stitched single front and single back seam plus 2 rows of stitching under the visor.

Here is a maker marked, 1942 dated example also for sale on Virtual Grenadier; http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=3986

However, Franz Ritter never crimped grommets like the cap which started this thread.

There are also other differences.

If by chance, it is a special production run of WH tropical caps that they made in October 1943 then surely someone will have seen a beyond doubt example before or have another to post here ???

At this stage, "Franz Ritter" or "0/0678/5015" is not a known maker of WH tropical caps,

Chris

I've always regarded the splayed eyelets as a manufacturing gaff related to whoever was operating the crimping machine at a given time. You see them occasionally but seldom see all of the eyelets splayed like that. Only my 2 cents.

Robt.

[B. N. Singer]

That's a nice one.

Robt.

From those pictures, I would not quite agree.

B. N. Singer

[90th Light]

I've always regarded the splayed eyelets as a manufacturing gaff related to whoever was operating the crimping machine at a given time. You see them occasionally but seldom see all of the eyelets splayed like that. Only my 2 cents.

Robt.

You will be hard pressed to find many original Third Reich grommets with nice neat, sprayed outwards, round edges like that, regardless of how much pressure or how little was applied. That style of the finished crimping looks like a nice flower and is nick-named by some, the "Daisy"

There is a certain faker who has access to that tool. It could indeed be an original Third Reich crimping tool that he is using. However, I am struggling to think of any original WH tropical cap which has "Daisy" crimped grommets,

Chris