Ordinary Men

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Has anyone read the book? I read it a while back and it was one of the best books I've read in a while. I was wondering what others thought of it.

[Robin Lumsden]

Yes. It's a very good book. Shows how easy it was to get sucked in.

[Patrick Dempsey]

A companion volume.

An equally interesting, if tragic and upsetting work is:

"Those were the days" (a deliberately provocative title, taken from the photo album of a KZ commandant), written by Ernst Klee, Willi Dressen, and Volker Reiss.

This had its first English language translation in 1991, and shows the complicity of the "low level", on the ground, perpetrators and bystanders.

A compelling and necessary read.


Patrick.

[kev105]

I agree it’s a very good book and well researched.

The vivid description of the execution methods carried out in the first two ‘actions’ defies belief. How could anyone shoot a victim, in cold blood, and at such close range, time & time again and not consider the wrongdoing of their deeds?

Okay, some protested and others refused to shoot, opting for guard duties instead. However, the majority were willing to comply with murder.

As for the victims, they just accepted their fate, lay face down on the ground and waited for a bullet – which often failed to kill them outright!

I just hope that the executioners suffered from ‘troubled’ consciences/lived in torment for the rest of their lives.

Kevin

[Sebastian Bianchi]

An equally interesting, if tragic and upsetting work is:

"Those were the days" (a deliberately provocative title, taken from the photo album of a KZ commandant), written by Ernst Klee, Willi Dressen, and Volker Reiss.

This had its first English language translation in 1991, and shows the complicity of the "low level", on the ground, perpetrators and bystanders.

A compelling and necessary read.


Patrick.

Thanks Patrick, I'll have to look that up.

[IanC]

Don't know if you know but further information on Police Battalion 101 can found in the book "Hitler's willing executioners" by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen

The book has several chapters on Police Battalions.

Cheers

Ian

[chrischa]

What struck me was the way these men integrated back into civillian life, and back into the police.

I'm not sure if I feel sympathy for their being dragged into the situation, or angry that they were not bought to justice.

[Jody]

Ordinary Men

Hello Seba,
I like the book a lot and it was the first book I reviewed for this forum in January. Here is the old link:
dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86684&highlight=ordinary+men Please check out this thread because Chap15 posted images of a Police book used by a member of that unit. There is a signature of Lt. Gnade in the book (same individual mentioned in the book Ordinary Men).

It was very well done book, and one of my favorites.
Regards,
Jody

[Kurt Barickman]

Ordinary Men/Those were the Days

Both of these books are excellent and used them as secondary sources for my Masters Thesis in Modern Germany History 1871-1945. My thesis was entitled: Forced to Obey Orders? The Opportunity Available to SS Men to Refuse to Commit Genocide. Some of my primary sources were from the Einsatzgruppen Trials which were one of the many Nuremberg Trials. I dealt more in depth with the Einsatzgruppen Men. No examples have been found of SS men opting out of genocide and facing serious consequences. In fact, one of the Einsatzgruppen commanders did and although was intimidated by Heydrich over this, he was allowed out of killing.

Kurt Barickman

[Kurt Barickman]

"troubled consciences"

Yes, some were able to integrate back into civilian lives, but several years ago I had an interesting document set to an SD Oberschafuhrer who was a member of Einsatzgruppen D in southern RUssia. Among the documents was one declaring him to be so sick from alcoholism that he was unable to continue work in this factory in Germany and this was in late 1940s. In my research I found that many of the reluctant killers would pretend to be "crazy" and were therefore allowed out of further shootings. Alcoholism was rampant among the shooters and was a major reason why the stationary gassing camps were established in occupied Poland so that it was "easier" on the killers and of course the Jews themselves in the Sonderkommando did much of the "dirty" of the killing process in the extermination camps.

Kurt Barickman

Kurt Barickman

[Chap15]

Hello Seba,
I like the book a lot and it was the first book I reviewed for this forum in January. Here is the old link:
dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86684&highlight=ordinary+men Please check out this thread because Chap15 posted images of a Police book used by a member of that unit. There is a signature of Lt. Gnade in the book (same individual mentioned in the book Ordinary Men).

It was very well done book, and one of my favorites.
Regards,
Jody

Seba,
I talked with Browning at UNC and he said that the guy whose ID book I have ended up in the loony bin towards the end of the war. Another great work is Eric Johnson's Nazi Terror: The Gestapo, Jews and Ordinary Germans. There was a fear of saying something about the Final Solution, but the Germans did rise up against the euthanasia program and forced Hitler to stop the program.