Prussian Johanniter Order Questions

[streptile]

I have a few questions about the Prussian Johanniter Order (Order of St. John).

I know it came in two versions, the "Rechtsritter" (with crown on top) and the "Ehrenritter" (without crown). For images of each see below.

I thought the Rechtsritterkreuz was for knights of aristocratic birth, and the Ehrenritter was for those, well... not. But Bismarck wore the Ehrenritter (here during his Frankfurt years):



Also, I thought the society was a private (not state-run) charity of sorts with an emphasis on the medical arts, but the outer carton of the Ehrenritterkreuz (attached below) looks suspiciously like those issued by the GOK, a Prussian state institution.

So, if anyone can help me:

1. Were the Johanitter Orders of both types issued by the Prussian state? Or privately by the Order?
2. What is the difference between the Ehren- and the Rechtsritter Kreuz?

[willlee]

Johanniter

I believe that when it was reformed in 1853 it was reestablished as a noble order under the protection of the king of Prussia with a Hohenzollern prince as herrenmeister. So I suppose the source of regalia was probably from imperial sources if not necessarily officially a prussian state order but probably in fact a sort of semi independent semi house order?
The two classes of justice (w/crown) and honor (w/o) both required the same test of nobility but knights of justice I think I recall had to be postulants as knights of honor for four years before promotion.
Hope this helps

[streptile]

Hi Willee,

Thank you for your reply.

So you think the Johanniter Order was probably not distributed from the GOK?

Thanks also for the info on the Rechts- and Ehrenritter.

[willlee]

I do not think the Johanniter Order was generally distributed by the GOK, though that does not mean that a number of regalia could not have been distributed from there for investitures confirmed directly by the herrenmeister or perhaps even the King himself as opposed to the majority of the investitures that were made by the local commanderies

[Wild Card]

Don’t forget, there was also the Kreuz der Kommandatoren which is basically a larger version of the Kreuz der Rechtsritter - 88 x 57 mm. vs 70 x 44 mm.