Real badge? - Zerstorerkriegsabzeichen

[FeRReR]

Hi
Your Opinions about this please

[BubbaZ]

As this badge is being offered on Polish allegro - I enclose few more pics from auction portal.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

more pictures.

[BubbaZ]

last one.

[FeRReR]

Thanks for your troubles

[Mike Kenny]

The detail appears weak, the hardware (and soldering) is strange and the grainy effect on the surfaces make me think this is a cast repro.

Regards
Mike

[BubbaZ]

I do not like it either
Except of what Mike pointed out I can see odd crevices on the ridges (as marked) which may indicate casting or maybe using heavily worn 'dekora' obverse die: http://lmd-militaria.com/page0287.htm
I can see also uneven trimming from obverse and reverse side.
Obverse details seem too weak, I do not like pointed upper pin and lack of any tooling marks on the catch and main pin.
Maker's mark seems too weak and the swastika is flawed too much as for original Shuco.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

I agree with Mike and Hubert, most likely a post-war badge. As Hubert pointed out, it has the seam in the edge typical of these "round-S" versions, and also has the wave flaw that is found in the "Dekora" that surfaced in the States. If you look at the images in the link Hubert provided it appears as if an old wartime die was altered with some post-war plates added to produce these badges. The general pitted texture that Mike pointed out just makes it doubly suspicious. Another feature, these sometimes (but not always) have the pointed end on the top hook which is also not seen on originals I believe.

Here are some comparisons of "round-S" versions to an accepted S.H.u.Co. and to the Dekora die.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

I just noticed that FeRReR's first two images were linked from an outside server, so I'm uploading them here to go with Hubert's other images so they aren't lost.

A note on the pitted texture. The pitting continues right over the solder of the catch and top hook so they don't seem to be casting pits. I think the badge was "aged" over its entire surface after manufacture.

I suspect the seam along the edge, which gives the appearance of mal-aligned two "halves", is caused because the badge outline in the top of the press doesn't quite match the outline of the bottom die.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

I think that the Hero is the one to be blamed for 'manufacture' of these roun S Shuco's. He might have got Dekora die in his hands some way?
Here is an example from his web page. Ferrer's badge looks very similiar but is artificialy aged as Norm noticed.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

I think that the Hero is the one to be blamed for 'manufacture' of these roun S Shuco's. He might have got Dekora die in his hands some way?
Here is an example from his web page. Ferrer's badge looks very similiar but is artificialy aged as Norm noticed.
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi Hubert,

I think you're right on. Here's another Staegemeir which is an even better match to the one that opened this thread. It has the same pointed top hook and the same pitted "aging" to the solder.

Best regards,
---Norm

[5ribbonbar]

Staegemeir...I hate that guy

But you have to admit...to the uneducated or those who do not use this site...they are pretty convincing.

Too bad there is no way to do a para drop on his little factory and take it out.

Cheers,

Glen

[BubbaZ]

Gents,
I have gone through all 'round-s' Shuco Destroyers on WAF and:
- they all match Dekora obverse die;
- they all match one of two different Staegemeir's badges posted above in this thread;
- they all seem to have nonferrous main pin and catch while in original wartime Shuco's these were made of steel.

So it is very likely that all 'round-s' Shuco Destroyers are Hero made fakes...
I also think that the badge which started this thread is improved version of earlier Staegemeir's 'round-s' fake: it has improved flag pole which in the first version was fat and bent forward making this fake easy to spot. It is also artificially aged. Another feature of improved version is pointed upper pin and indistinct maker's mark.

Here is typical early type 'round-s' fake:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...stroyer&page=2

I also enclose two examples of early type 'round-s' fake.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

A thread on sammler.ru was brought to my attention which discusses a "hoard find" of these "round-S" badges that supposedly came from Germany. I don't have any details on the find, but have permission to show the images here.

All varying finish and varying "aging". It makes no sense to me to see this wide variety of finish in the same batch of badges, and it all looks suspicious of artificial "aging" as we often see on Staegemeir products.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Unfortunately, there are no closeups of the margins to see the tell-tale splits illustrated earlier that result from the post-war Dekora die combination, but they clearly show the Dekora wave flaw on the obverse and they all have the same crude construction and non-ferrous main pin.