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    More badges "made" by Juncker than we know?

    Dear fellow collectors,

    With the help of a good collector friend in Hamburg, I was able to find an article in the "Deutsche Uniformen Zeitschrift", which united the former "Schwert & Spaten" and "Der Uniformen-Markt" in one magazine later in the war. The issue dates back to 20th June, 1944. This is not just some magazine, it is the official magazine for announcements of the LDO and the Präsidialkanzlei (among other institutions).

    The article basically reads:

    OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS OF THE PRÄSIDIALKANZLEI:

    Assignment of ONE company for the war badges of the Wehrmacht

    When applications from several companies for the manufacture of the war badges of the Wehrmacht for private purchase were checked, big differences in quality and design have been noted. As a result, the Präsidialkanzlei has assigned the company of C.E. Juncker as the manufacturer of the war badges of the Wehrmacht (all miniatures, even those of the war badges will still be manufactured by Steinhauer & Lück). Following the binding guidelines of the supreme command of the Wehrmacht, C. E. Juncker will create sample badges, which will then be declared by the Präsidialkanzlei to be the binding role models, for all companies, which create war badges for the private purchase market. The Präsidialkanzlei is asking these makers to refrain from acquiring new tools for the war badges of the Wehrmacht, until these sample badges are finished. At the given time, the companies owning a concession can order the dies from the company C.E. Juncker.
    Attached Files
    Cheers, Frank


    #2
    The article does not have any pictures (like 95% of all LDO or Präsidialkanzlei announcements) so now we have to speculate which badges could be those of which Juncker created the dies in 1944 and which a number of companies (probably Juncker being also among them) produced.

    At least two badge designs come to my mind, one IAB design and one PAB design.

    Some pictures:

    This badge is considered to be a Juncker made IAB, because of the reverse setup, also to be found on Juncker marked zinc badges:
    Attached Files
    Cheers, Frank

    Comment


      #3
      reverse
      Attached Files
      Cheers, Frank

      Comment


        #4
        I found another article, which is not so relevant here, which states that the very first IABs in 1940 were made by Juncker as well. They were hollow backs made of German silver. These very early IABs which could be attributed to Juncker do NOT match the above zinc badge design. This could still make sense, because Juncker got a contract in 1944 to create a NEW IAB design after which dies were made by Juncker for ALL makers, which made IABs for the private purchase market.
        It makes even more sense because there are no EARLY badges with THIS design, just zinkers with a huge variety of different setups, most of which do NOT look like Juncker´s. This does also make sense, because other companies just used the Juncker DIES, but not neccessarily a Juncker made reverse setup.
        Cheers, Frank

        Comment


          #5
          It will take time to digest this...until then, I bow to your research skills! Frank, this is really something else.
          Kind regards,
          Marc

          Comment


            #6
            Here is a very interesting IAB with the same obverse design, which was PREPARED (in the die) for the Juncker setup (see width line marks for long Juncker style catch plate), but in fact, some completely different setup was used.
            This badge is so important because it creates a bridge to the PAB we called "Zimmermann". I will continue to show why after the pics of this important "link" IAB.
            Attached Files
            Cheers, Frank

            Comment


              #7
              ..
              Attached Files
              Cheers, Frank

              Comment


                #8
                Now study and compare the reverse setup of this "Zimmermann" PAB:
                Attached Files
                Cheers, Frank

                Comment


                  #9
                  obverse. While of course it is just a very likely ASSUMPTION that the above IABs and the PABs of this design were part of this Juncker "project", the connection of the IAB and this PAB does indeed prove something else:

                  The PABs we called Zimmermann cannot possibly have been made by Zimmermann, at least not exclusively. Why not?
                  -if PAB shown above was made by same company than IAB with the same setup, then IAB would have to resemble the FZS (for Zimmermann) marked IABs. But it absolutely does NOT.

                  Of course Zimmermann could have theoretically made his FZS marked IAB up until 1944 and then switched over to the design provided by Juncker. Not impossible, but that is where pure and very wild guessing starts.

                  But I think if these PABs should be called anything (which is probably in any case incorrect because these were very likely made by a number of different makers) it should be Juncker style instead of Zimmermann style.

                  Of course this would also mean that the PAB we called Juncker so far is something else (maybe indeed Zimmermann).

                  Confused? You should be, these Präsidialkanzlei guys played some heavy tricks on us in 1944 and we will certainly have to rebuild some of our theories which grew and settled over the years.
                  Cheers, Frank

                  Comment


                    #10
                    This is the usual version of this PAB which can be re-connected to the IAB in posts #2 and #3. Compare setups:
                    Attached Files
                    Cheers, Frank

                    Comment


                      #11
                      obverse...
                      Cheers, Frank

                      Comment


                        #12
                        the guys that used this same PAB design and crimped in the hinge are probably even ANOTHER company using the Juncker provided design:
                        Attached Files
                        Cheers, Frank

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Frank, Interesting thread. If they really implemented this across the board then I would expect to see all the late(est) war pieces having the same obverse in each category IAB, PAB etc... In actuality this should have been implemented at the very begining of the war and not the end. Perhaps manufacturers had enough stock on hand for the most part to finish out the war. That and the fact that Juncker was bombed out of business might have ended this attempt at standardizaion.

                          We have to be careful here talking about mother dies and such because next thing you know the Cross boys will be here muddying the waters!

                          Just some random thoughts to ponder.

                          Don
                          pseudo-expert

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Obverse always remains the same (basically). This will also explain why some of these PABs do have that little die fault on the reverse and others do not. And why some of the headlights seem to be bigger than others or have more pronounced rims than others. The explanation is: different dies for different makers, but dies all made by Juncker.
                            Attached Files
                            Cheers, Frank

                            Comment


                              #15
                              @Don: we do not have to speculate about the dies. The announcement clearly states that DIES can be ordered at the Juncker company by ALL makers with a concession for the private purchase market.
                              This means that even AFTER Juncker was bombed out, Juncker made dies remained with these non-bombed out companies and they prduced these badges until the end of the war.
                              Cheers, Frank

                              Comment

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