Gravity knife Type IIb

[shellmac]

Hi all,

here is my german gravity knife Type IIb with the dagger blade. I appreciate every comment to this knife. All the parts of these IIb knifes look exactly like produced by SMF. IMHO it is "original", but it is too hard to say original about prototype or test sample.

Here is comment to this knife from my friend JP Bruening (co-author of the book Luftwaffe gravity knife by Pattarozzi):

I can not find one evidence that this knife is not original. To my knowledge there are only 2 copies (of type II knifes) around. One made in Poland and one is just recently got on the market and is sold through US dealers as a copy.
This knife has the right shape in all parts. There seem to be 2 rivets in the spike flat spring, all markings are very clear and do not seem like cheap mass production. The king on the blade looks absolutely original and clear. The Waffenamt stamp is actually stamped .....

Yes the number thing is a bit weird I have also never seen an item with the same numbers. I may only assume that this is one of the first ones .... maybe the first batch and they were produced right after another by one small team or man ......Also the traces of age look very authentic....

Why there is not the arrow on the metal head? I can only assume that they did not pay attention to so much detail because they were just test samples.


Look at photos I upload here. I tried to make some detailing of the knife and marking and make some comparing with the information in the Books about gravity knives.

[Serge M.]

Hi all,

here is my german gravity knife Type IIb with the dagger blade. I appreciate every comment to this knife. All the parts of these IIb knifes look exactly like produced by SMF. IMHO it is "original", but it is too hard to say original about prototype or test sample.

Here is comment to this knife from my friend JP Bruening (co-author of the book Luftwaffe gravity knife by Pattarozzi):

I can not find one evidence that this knife is not original. To my knowledge there are only 2 copies (of type II knifes) around. One made in Poland and one is just recently got on the market and is sold through US dealers as a copy.
This knife has the right shape in all parts. There seem to be 2 rivets in the spike flat spring, all markings are very clear and do not seem like cheap mass production. The king on the blade looks absolutely original and clear. The Waffenamt stamp is actually stamped .....

Yes the number thing is a bit weird I have also never seen an item with the same numbers. I may only assume that this is one of the first ones .... maybe the first batch and they were produced right after another by one small team or man ......Also the traces of age look very authentic....

Why there is not the arrow on the metal head? I can only assume that they did not pay attention to so much detail because they were just test samples.


Look at photos I upload here. I tried to make some detailing of the knife and marking and make some comparing with the information in the Books about gravity knives.

Question: is the blade numbered?, and if so, can you please show it. I see it is now. OK....

-wagner-

[Serge M.]

I know what I wan to say, just don't know where to start. OK, lets first start with this statement: >>All the parts of these IIb knifes look exactly like produced by SMF. IMHO it is "original", but it is too hard to say original about prototype or test sample.<<

the example you show, shows nothing like a authentic, textbook Type 2b gravity knife detail features exhibit.
Neither in the INOX stainless version, or the Carbon blade version.

1. The blade shape is wrong. That stands out.
2. The makers logo for SMF is in the wrong location, and the logo itself does not correspond to period examples of any known authentic version. Kings cape lines, and the letters 'SMF'.
3. The logo also lacks details.
4. The body of the knife seems to be that of a Weyersberg product or perhaps, another maker other than SMF. Both versions of SMF Type2b test example show same consistant numbering as shown in this Textbook Original example being offered by Wittmann Militaria:
http://www.wwiidaggers.com/38493.htm

I can go on, but need to keep a couple of details in the vest pocket until the new improved version of a fake, like this thread example, surfaces again.

If you recently bought that as a original, I would return it for a refund. it's clearly a fake blade incorporated into a Type 2 body, plainly made to deceive.

No Go, this time guys.

-wagner-

[shellmac]

Hi Wags,

I think the logo position is not a prove of a fake blade, because I've seen a lot of FKm blades which had logo SMF or Weyersberg in different position on the blade...

Here is the opinion of my friend JP Bruening from Germany, he said:

I also think it is original. It looks old unlike to todays copies .... It must be at least 30 years old ... then I am thinking in the 1980s where there was not internet and it wasn´t easy to sell these knifes like today; why would I invest a lot of time to make such a perfect copy (the logo on the blade, the numbers on the metal head etc.) to then sell it for so little money. XXX$ today for such a handmade piece wouldn´t have given me the motivation to invest 20 or 30 hours of work plus the material costs and the tools you would need.

I still cannot find any single evidence that this knife is not original. especially the numbering IN the metal head I think is evidence enough (the metal head has 2x number 1 inside the head) ... why would you print a number in there, that is not normal at all and you wouldn´t want to add a feature that would make the buyer think that it is not original , also that is unnecessary extra effort as a faker. Same with the extra pin in the metal head ... why would you add that feature if it is not necessary.

With the spring I am not sure why this is ... maybe knowing that these knifes would be just used for tests ( and the main new feature would be the new blade) they didn´t really bother to produce the spring to the very end. They knew already it was functioning .... or maybe they were trying a new, more work efficient design .... in the end this was a late war production .....

So Now I have two absolutely different opinions :-)

Thank you for reply

[Serge M.]

Hi Wags,

I think the logo position is not a prove of a fake blade, because I've seen a lot of FKm blades which had logo SMF or Weyersberg in different position on the blade...

The Position is not as important as the Logo SMF logo itself. Your knifes SMF logo looks nothing like a original Type 2b. Perhaps your expert can address why your example SMF logo is not like other type2b ? Either on INOX or on Carbon blade as shown on this original.
And why your logo has poor details, as it doesn't seem to be due to wear ?

Perhaps he can also state why the shape of the blade is also different, and why the internal numbering of the body is unlike a SMF product, along with physical features of a SMF product.

[mwl]

I know what I wan to say, just don't know where to start. OK, lets first start with this statement: >>All the parts of these IIb knifes look exactly like produced by SMF. IMHO it is "original", but it is too hard to say original about prototype or test sample.<<

the example you show, shows nothing like a authentic, textbook Type 2b gravity knife detail features exhibit.
Neither in the INOX stainless version, or the Carbon blade version.

1. The blade shape is wrong. That stands out.
2. The makers logo for SMF is in the wrong location, and the logo itself does not correspond to period examples of any known authentic version. Kings cape lines, and the letters 'SMF'.
3. The logo also lacks details.
4. The body of the knife seems to be that of a Weyersberg product or perhaps, another maker other than SMF. Both versions of SMF Type2b test example show same consistant numbering as shown in this Textbook Original example being offered by Wittmann Militaria:
http://www.wwiidaggers.com/38493.htm

I can go on, but need to keep a couple of details in the vest pocket until the new improved version of a fake, like this thread example, surfaces again.

If you recently bought that as a original, I would return it for a refund. it's clearly a fake blade incorporated into a Type 2 body, plainly made to deceive.

No Go, this time guys.

-wagner-

Fully agree - No Go

[Serge M.]

Hi all,

here is my german gravity knife Type IIb with the dagger blade. I appreciate every comment to this knife. All the parts of these IIb knifes look exactly like produced by SMF. IMHO it is "original", but it is too hard to say original about prototype or test sample.

Here is comment to this knife from my friend JP Bruening (co-author of the book Luftwaffe gravity knife by Pattarozzi):

I can not find one evidence that this knife is not original. To my knowledge there are only 2 copies (of type II knifes) around. One made in Poland and one is just recently got on the market and is sold through US dealers as a copy.
This knife has the right shape in all parts. There seem to be 2 rivets in the spike flat spring, all markings are very clear and do not seem like cheap mass production. The king on the blade looks absolutely original and clear. The Waffenamt stamp is actually stamped .....

Yes the number thing is a bit weird I have also never seen an item with the same numbers. I may only assume that this is one of the first ones .... maybe the first batch and they were produced right after another by one small team or man ......Also the traces of age look very authentic....

Why there is not the arrow on the metal head? I can only assume that they did not pay attention to so much detail because they were just test samples.


Look at photos I upload here. I tried to make some detailing of the knife and marking and make some comparing with the information in the Books about gravity knives.

Hey Shellmac, Why did you delete photos? This ruins the thread. That is not good behavior for this forum. This is not a forum where you start a thread then members comment, and if you don't get the answers you like, you then delete photos making the thread worthless.

-wagner-