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**Matt L** · 12-21-2004, 11:49 AM

Hi Paul,

Do you have any certain provenance on any of these discs?

Unfortunately, I can pretty-much guarantee you that the first one is a fake- letters and numbers are a fairly common type used in fakes and I have many images of discs with the same lettering that are for sure bad in my 'fakes' file.

The second one is a little harder- I can't say for sure one way or the other at the moment. The organization of the information is odd- a proper order would be 'STB. KP. SS-PZ ABT 5'; the Kompanie information should preceed the 'SS' and the Abteilung number '5' should definitely only follow the 'ABT'. My feeling is that this makes the disc questionable at best, and I certainly wouldn't buy it unless it had an iron-clad provenance. I don't actually have access to all the images in my 'fakes' database at the moment, but I'll check when I can to see if the letters/numbers have ever been used before.

The third one is also questionble- it is very reminiscent to the general form of fakes around these days, although just as with the previous one, I'd need to look at the images to see if the letters match any 100% bad ones. Also, there was an 'SS-Sanitäts-Abteilung 4' in the 4. SS-Pz. Gren. Div. Polizei, however the listing in Tessin doesn't include 'Polizei' in the unit designation. This in itself doesn't mean the disc is fake, it just adds to the questionable status.

As I tell everyone who asks about SS discs, you have to be VERY careful when considering buying one. 99.9% of them are fakes without exaggeration. I've only ever found maybe 15 or 18 that I'm 100% certain were authentic, and 12 of those were being sold by a single individual (I bought 8 of them and a friend of mine bought the other 4). All the rest have been singles here and there- and this is out of many thousands of discs (not all SS mind you) that I've seen for sale in nearly 5 years of collecting them. Because SS discs are so widely faked, it's essential that one obtains opinions before buying- the SS only had about 10% of the overall strength of the Heer, and yet one sees just as many SS discs for sale as Heer ones- this in itself should show that most have to be fakes.

I'm sorry to have to give you bad news- I sure hope these were recent acquisitions and that you can return them should you feel the need to.

Matt

**HOLMZEY** · 12-21-2004, 12:10 PM

Id

Originally posted by Matt L

Hi Paul,

Do you have any certain provenance on any of these discs?

Unfortunately, I can pretty-much guarantee you that the first one is a fake- letters and numbers are a fairly common type used in fakes and I have many images of discs with the same lettering that are for sure bad in my 'fakes' file.

The second one is a little harder- I can't say for sure one way or the other at the moment. The organization of the information is odd- a proper order would be 'STB. KP. SS-PZ ABT 5'; the Kompanie information should preceed the 'SS' and the Abteilung number '5' should definitely only follow the 'ABT'. My feeling is that this makes the disc questionable at best, and I certainly wouldn't buy it unless it had an iron-clad provenance. I don't actually have access to all the images in my 'fakes' database at the moment, but I'll check when I can to see if the letters/numbers have ever been used before.

The third one is also questionble- it is very reminiscent to the general form of fakes around these days, although just as with the previous one, I'd need to look at the images to see if the letters match any 100% bad ones. Also, there was an 'SS-Sanitäts-Abteilung 4' in the 4. SS-Pz. Gren. Div. Polizei, however the listing in Tessin doesn't include 'Polizei' in the unit designation. This in itself doesn't mean the disc is fake, it just adds to the questionable status.

As I tell everyone who asks about SS discs, you have to be VERY careful when considering buying one. 99.9% of them are fakes without exaggeration. I've only ever found maybe 15 or 18 that I'm 100% certain were authentic, and 12 of those were being sold by a single individual (I bought 8 of them and a friend of mine bought the other 4). All the rest have been singles here and there- and this is out of many thousands of discs (not all SS mind you) that I've seen for sale in nearly 5 years of collecting them. Because SS discs are so widely faked, it's essential that one obtains opinions before buying- the SS only had about 10% of the overall strength of the Heer, and yet one sees just as many SS discs for sale as Heer ones- this in itself should show that most have to be fakes.

I'm sorry to have to give you bad news- I sure hope these were recent acquisitions and that you can return them should you feel the need to.

Matt

HI MATT THANK YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE .THE MIDDLE ONE I THINK AS BEEN DUG UP AND IS REAL THE OTHER TWO NOT TO SURE?.IN THE NXT WEEK OR TWO I WILL POST SOME MORE ID TAGS SS AND PZ I NEED TO THIN THEM OUT FAKES TO REAL THANK YOU AGAIN PAUL HOLMES.

**Gaspare** · 12-21-2004, 07:02 PM

1st tag is a old 'rokas' fake..

2nd no good also ,it uses the generic stamps the counterfeiters were useing for a while and of course the format is wrong as Matt pointed out.

3rd. tag looks like the newly made tags for 'living history' guys.. , G.

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