Schickle RK on Regimentals

[Leroy]

Thought this was interesting (regardless of what you think about the dealer):
http://www.regimentals.co.uk/viewpho...=52794&phqu=10

[streptile]

Thanks Gentry.

The photos are pretty poor for a $20,000.00 set. The dates on the RK look like a legit Schickle, but the loop seems rounded rather than flat, as I am used to seeing on an L/15. Is that my eyes? Or do you see that as well? Also, I wonder if the frame is real silver.

[Rich G]

I would like to see more of the oakleaves! BTW the ring looks flat to me.

Rich

[Leroy]

Trevor - I think the ring is flat and just the lighting bouncing off the frosting gives the impression that it is not.

I am "on the fence" about whether the Oakleaves are for sure S&L, but I will say they are VERY close, and would like to have better photos.

These allegedly coming from Ludenscheid might add fuel to the fire that Deumer was the maker of the Schickle RK.

[Dietrich Maerz]

These allegedly coming from Ludenscheid might add fuel to the fire that Deumer was the maker of the Schickle RK.

Yes, and the moon is made of green cheese. People will make up all kind of "stories".

[Leroy]

Yes, and the moon is made of green cheese. People will make up all kind of "stories".

Have you got something better, Dietrich?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Proof that Schickle made the Schickle?

[Leroy]

If you have it, please show it so we can get back to concentrating on what Deumer did.

[Dietrich Maerz]

I don't have anything other than the usual circumstantial evidence (which for me is solid enough!). But I was not in his workshop attending the manufacture of the cross. For speculation reasons, Deumer could have made it, S&L or Hitler himself.

The same is the case with all the other makers. Nobody knows whether Juncker made the cross or whether they bought it form Carlo Pallutzi in Southern Italy.

'That is why I am happy to be able to tell the fingerprints of what a Schickle should look like - or should I say "the Knights Cross which is attributed to Schickle but maybe was made by Deumer or somebody else we don't know."

[Leroy]

Or maybe you should just say: "Here is a cross marked to Schickle (L/15). Please observe the details. There is some disagreement (which I am not able to resolve) as to whether these crosses were actually made by Schickle or some other company."

[Dietrich Maerz]

I am not aware of any disagreement???

[Leroy]

Gordon posted a Schickle RK, with Oakleaves, from the Shropshire Light Infantry Museum, on a Deumer card, brought back by a General from that unit. The oakleaves attached to that Schickle appear to match the style Oakleaves used on the German Order, which was also (according to those who are familiar with it - not my personal field) made by Deumer. I believe all this has been discussed in various places for years.

[George Stimson]

Gentry, which evidence is more substantive to you that would indicate that "Schickle" Knights Crosses were indeed made by that firm (if you have an opinion) -- that there are RKs stamped with the accepted manufacturing mark of Otto Schickle (a mark presumably made by a metal punch of some sort) or that a single "Schickle" RK has been observed affixed to a piece of cardboard marked by Deumer?

[Leroy]

George - I do not have an opinion one way or the other, as I do not think we have enough evidence to make a definitive call at this time. The "L/15" stamp is certainly a very positive indicator that these came from Schickle. Did companies, however, actually have to make something to put their "L" mark on a piece? That does not appear to have been the case with the "L/13" marked Juncker RK or the S&L made RK marketed with the stamp of Foerster & Barth. Schickle, of course, lost its license - do we know why? There is recent evidence that Deumer either fully made, or at least was involved in the finishing process of, an RK of some sort. Was this the Schickle? We DON'T KNOW. I find it interesting that the "Shropshire" piece appears, apparently untouched, on a Deumer card, with Oakleaves attached which appear to match the German Order Oakleaves, also made by Deumer. And now (which is why I started this thread) we have a mint Schickle allegedly brought back from Ludenscheid (Deumer's location) after the war. NOTHING is proven at this point, IMO.

[Dietrich Maerz]

For me it is clear that Schickle made the Knights Cross. One freak finding will not change the paper trail for me. To use this example would be the same as to say the Meybauer made the Juncker Knights Cross just because there is this one example found with "L/13".