Knight's Cross of the War Merit marked 900, help needed?

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Knight's Cross of the War Merit marked 900, help needed?

Find this Knight's Cross of the War Merit marked 900 a few weeks ago. What do you think about it?

Weight is 56,7 gramm

KC KVK 900 (6).jpg

KC KVK 900 (7).jpg

KC KVK 900 (5).jpg

[Matthieu]

Assume copy, details are too soft.

[Unfront]

There is a lot to not like about it.

[Green]

There is a lot to not like about it.

Let me hear now I'm curious?

[all1knew]

reproduction for sure.

William Kramer

[Green]

Thanks guys for your opinions

[Unfront]

Let me hear now I'm curious?

For starts, I am going to say that I am not a seasoned expert, but I have been collecting for a few decades now and have always had a keen interest in the Kregsverdienst Kreuz as the award, especially in its higher grades, represented a substantial contribution to the war effort. That said, I have not written any books, but have read a few books on the subject (by Williamson/Charita and Mearz).

Regarding the cross at hand:
I have handled a few of these crosses in the real world (both Deschler and Steinhauer & Lück.... the cross at hand does not have any characteristics of either maker, nor does it have any characteristics of the Zimmerman firm after reviewing photographs of Zimmerman crosses in both books mentioned above.

I don't like the pebling of the area around the swastika and 1939 date.

The material looks like 900 stamped Fein-pewter.

As Mathieu mentioned above, the details are very soft.

I have not seen another cross with a 1939 date like the cross at hand.

The ribbon does not look like a period made piece - original crosses had a finished ribbon with ties in its unissued form. I'd bet the ribbon of the cross at hand would light up like he Hong Kong Skyline if placed under a black light, and I'd go a little further and bet that it would also melt into a plastic ball at the mere mention of a burn test... (Though the ribbon is an independent item from the cross, the fact that it does not pass muster, does not bode well for the cross itself, especially when the cross itself is questionable.)

All in all, this cross looks suspiciously like a "museum quality" piece that you could order up for $39.95+7.69 in shipping from

Attached is a photo of my collection of the KVK series, complete with a 1942 era 900 stamped non makers marked Deshler. (Sorry for the poor photo quality as this was a quick snap from my tablet.) For more detailed photos, please see my thread here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=924292

[Green]

For starts, I am going to say that I am not a seasoned expert, but I have been collecting for a few decades now and have always had a keen interest in the Kregsverdienst Kreuz as the award, especially in its higher grades, represented a substantial contribution to the war effort. That said, I have not written any books, but have read a few books on the subject (by Williamson/Charita and Mearz).

Regarding the cross at hand:
I have handled a few of these crosses in the real world (both Deschler and Steinhauer & Lück.... the cross at hand does not have any characteristics of either maker, nor does it have any characteristics of the Zimmerman firm after reviewing photographs of Zimmerman crosses in both books mentioned above.

I don't like the pebling of the area around the swastika and 1939 date.

The material looks like 900 stamped Fein-pewter.

As Mathieu mentioned above, the details are very soft.

I have not seen another cross with a 1939 date like the cross at hand.

The ribbon does not look like a period made piece - original crosses had a finished ribbon with ties in its unissued form. I'd bet the ribbon of the cross at hand would light up like he Hong Kong Skyline if placed under a black light, and I'd go a little further and bet that it would also melt into a plastic ball at the mere mention of a burn test... (Though the ribbon is an independent item from the cross, the fact that it does not pass muster, does not bode well for the cross itself, especially when the cross itself is questionable.)



Attached is a photo of my collection of the KVK series, complete with a 1942 era 900 stamped non makers marked Deshler. (Sorry for the poor photo quality as this was a quick snap from my tablet.) For more detailed photos, please see my thread here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=924292

Wauw ....you sound certainty as an expert.

I also have those two books. I compaired the cross with the ones in the books. Find no match at all and find that a bit strange. Why make a unique copy/fake??? I am not an expert. That´s why I post it here. Of course with in my mind its a copy/fake.....but you never know??? Does nobody recognizes this?

I am also a collector with a little knowledge about ribbons and medals. I have a UV light and a lighter...... the ribbon does not glow, past the burn test and feels like as it should be! Oh , I forget... good loop edged weave on both sides

You are sorry for your poor photo quality.....so you know what a photo can do with presenting a piece. Believe me in hand its still is a nice piece. I do not agree with your opinion, its a cheap bad fake, as you indicate here ; "All in all, this cross looks suspiciously like a "museum quality" piece that you could order up for $39.95+7.69 in shipping from ".


But its clear to me. I know what I wanted to know.....thanks

[Dietrich Maerz]

The best thing a faker can do is to create a new design! This can always be argued as an unknown maker by the owners and sellers. Such a fake is far harder to expose than a fake based on a known design. No faker will ever get it right!
An unknown design can only be exposed by holistic knowledge of the whole circumstances and given statistics. That is why sometimes it is better to say “Not a known maker” than just “fake!”. In this case, however, I think it is a fake.

[Unfront]

Well then, I stand corrected if neither of those things turn out to be true regarding the ribbon; however, even if it does not glow and does pass the burn test, I still don't like the ribbon. And you are correct, better photos are indeed helpful, and nothing beats a real world, in-hand inspection; however, neither of those things will help this cross. (I do not mean you any disrespect though as we are all enjoy this stuff and we are all still learning - I just post what I think about the piece itself.) Happy hunting!

[Green]

Find this round stamped circle between the pebbling good it be the S&L o-circle marking...or is it nothing?

O- Mark.jpg

[Unfront]

It looks nothing like an St&L example. St&Ls RK-KVKs were much thicker than the cross at hand.

[Green]

The best thing a faker can do is to create a new design! This can always be argued as an unknown maker by the owners and sellers. Such a fake is far harder to expose than a fake based on a known design. No faker will ever get it right!
An unknown design can only be exposed by holistic knowledge of the whole circumstances and given statistics. That is why sometimes it is better to say “Not a known maker” than just “fake!”. In this case, however, I think it is a fake.

I understand what you are saying. I do not understand this, why would you make so few crosses. I once saw one the same, in a topic from 6 years ago!
Also designated as a fake.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/orders...d-help-138027/

[Green]

It looks nothing like an St&L example. St&Ls RK-KVKs were much thicker than the cross at hand.

According the book "The War Merit Cross 1.Class and Higher Grades, the S&L RK KVK weight is 58,8 gramm.

The cross "at hand" weights 56,7 gramm! So I don´t think S&L RK KVK is thicker, as you indicate!
But you are right the cross looks not like an S&L.... I just discovered something new and wanted to find out what this is!