J1, J2 & J3???

[Tim Calvert]

OK, let's have some fun.

There's a little discussion going on about variations in the Juncker pilot's badge family.

I know there are lots of variations including ~ cut out between the legs, hallmarks, etc, but when it comes to the dies used, I've only ever seen three. Let's start with the eagle's body for now to keep it simple. Can anyone add another type, made from a different die? Let's see what we can come up with.


J1....

[Tim Calvert]

J2...

[Tim Calvert]

and J3...

[Tim Calvert]

Please keep in mind, I'm not asking for a J3 in zinc, that's the same die as a regular J3 (see Lorenzo's new P/O), same die. If it's zinc and from another die, then let's see it.

I'm not asking for a J1 with and without cut-outs, they use a J1 die. I'm not talking about the CEJ in a box badges, they also use the J1 die.

Also keep in mind.........these are just my opinions!

[skip]

Hi Tim,

looks like nobody wants to talk to you. What have you done? or is it that you have so many Pilot badges that everybody is jelous? :-)

I agree with your classification of the different types, although I must admit that I always thought a J3 comes from a reworked J2 die.
I still have problems holding J2 and J3 apart some times. But when somebody says J3 I know they mean a not so nice J2, and J1 is obviously always the thin wreath type.

I thinck these classifications are alright to use on the Forum, but non forum members really do not have a clue what you are talking about, most people I know call them thin or thick wreath.

Skip

[Jos L C]

Hi Tim,

Maybe it's better showing the wreaths too to make it more easy..

J2/J2..J2/J3..J3/J2..J3/J3........,

and Skip..,for a quick indentification..,the J3 eagle has some rather thick toes..,first thing to look at..


JLC.

[Tim Calvert]

Hi Jostermeister and Skip. Good point on the "toes" Jos. Before we get to the wreaths, let's take a look at the wings. Notice the central row of feathers. On the J2 they are pretty much in the middle. On the J3 they arch up twords the top of the wing.


J2...

[Tim Calvert]

J3...

[Brian S]

Didn't you invent that vernacular? I sure haven't seen more than 3 eagles.

[John T]

Hi Tim,

Maybe it's better showing the wreaths too to make it more easy..

J2/J2..J2/J3..J3/J2..J3/J3........,

and Skip..,for a quick indentification..,the J3 eagle has some rather thick toes..,first thing to look at..


JLC.

I like this system...as it shows the combination of the eagle/wreath..but what should the first J be for the eagle or the wreath..ie eagle/wreath, or wreath/eagle,

John

[Lorenzo Brown]

Didn't you invent that vernacular? I sure haven't seen more than 3 eagles.

Yup!! Tim invented this one. It is a good system.

J=Juncker
1,2.3= 1st, 2nd or 3rd pattern. Combine with eagle/wreath. Works for me!!

[Tim Calvert]

I think it works well and makes sense. This way you can describe a badge as a J1 with a cut-out....or a J1 in aluminum, etc.

I've seen a J3 eagle on a J2 wreath. With this system it's pretty easy to explain.

As previously mentioned, many dealers lump the second and third pattern badges together. Personally it makes a big difference to me whether I'm buying a second or third pattern Juncker pilot.

[Pascal H.]

I would love to see some different wreaths. Thanks to GrandMaster Jos and Tim I now can recognise the different eagles but I still have the greatest difficulty with the wreaths.

So please let the show go on.

Pascal

[Tim Calvert]

Hi Pas,


Well the first pattern thin wreaths are obvious. I've never seen a first pattern eagle on a later wreath. So let's examine the J2 and J3 wreaths since they are of similar style and thickness. There is a very easy and quick way to determine whether a wreath is a J2 or 3.

Here is a J2 wreath. Look at the lower section of the middle laurel leaf....
see what looks like a little "infinity symbol" laid sideways? A "figure eight"? The later wreaths don't have that. The entire design is slightly different, but this is a very easy and quick way to differentiate between the two.

J2....

[Tim Calvert]

J3, notice the leaf is plain...it also dips into the tie a bit...