Turkish/ Gallipoli Star fake or not fake ?

[90th Light]

Some time ago, the Turkish/ Gallipoli Star pictured below, was posted on this forum.

A while later, Don found out that it was a fake which it is now classified as,

Chris

[90th Light]

Today this very interesting example arrived in its case.

It is very, very close in construction to the example shown in post number 1. In fact, it might be made by the same maker ??? .

Based on this case, we might have just discovered who this maker is.

or is the example in post number 1 a copy of the type by this maker ???

Chris

[90th Light]

More front images of the "Raithel",

Chris

[90th Light]

Reverse side.

Notice the maker mark on the pin and the maker mark also on the pin of the example shown in post number 1. They are both marked with a similar symbol on the same part of the pin. Also, the hinge, pin and hook are almost identical,

Chris

[90th Light]

The case.

I like his title "Court Goldsmith" or "Palace Goldsmith".

Shame he had no silver to make it from. May be war/ hard times in that Principality and none to spare or desired for this award at that time ?

May be it was intended to be placed immediately on a combat tunic hence the wear. Save or get the nice "800"/ "935" silver example for the parade uniform when the war is won ?

Chris

[90th Light]

Top & bottom of case,

Chris

[90th Light]

Catch & hinge,

Chris

[90th Light]

There are subtle differences. The one shown in post number 1 is however, dangerously close to an original "Raithel". Especially if that Raithel was in excellent condition, it might be dismissed too soon as being bad ???

Or is the example shown in post number 1 a later production from "Raithel" in the 1920's or 1930's ???

Would be interested to know what others think about this,

Chris

[Don D.]

Post #1 is still a fake,

[90th Light]

Post #1 is still a fake,

I have no problem with that verdict Don,

hopefully my postings, will show the differences between an original by this maker and the fake.

If you look closely at the mark on the pin of the example in post number 1, it appears to be a cross " + ". The mark on the pin on my example is a star or sun burst " * "

Chris

[Gew44]

Hello Chris, nice to meet you,
the correct mark on pin is * the Austrian marking mark for "no precious metal made", this is visible also on EKII ring.

Also the symbol or inscription inside the botton is different and all, on fake, appear put over the gloss enamel

First have also incorrect background respect the original, I post pics just to explain better what I meant.

This ever from my personal field experience, not is for sure the verb. and hope this help somebody

Your Gallipoli Star with box is a perfect example of that decorations.

[Rich G]

This is interesting because Gera is in Germany therefore the theory that the asterix means Austrian can be discounted. So I suppose then it is either a maker mark or is signifies that the metal is not precious metal?

[Don D.]

Not so fast. We did the same leap with the AS triangle PAB based on one example found in a packet marked A D Schwerdt. There are several possibilities.

1. This is the original star in its case.

2. The star has been married to this case sometime in the last 100 years....

3. This jeweller is just a distributor and he got this item from Austria (Gera being nearer the border than to Berlin/other place with German makers)

4. The case is bogus.

5. ????

6. ????

I think we need to examine this further before we can pin it down.......

[Rich G]

Fair comment, Don.

It looks to me the case and medal go together but of course I can't prove that so you are correct to be cautious.

Similar things have happened with the block hinge LW badges...a theory was put forward, now everyone (except me) calls them FLL badges. For me, a theory is just that and is not proof of any kind. All theories have to be proven before being called a fact.

I suppose the next step is to find some more cased awards from this jeweller in Gera as see what we find.

[ww1czechlegion]

Hello,

My focus for this reply is on the case (as I know nothing of the originality of the Turkish/Gallipoli Star).

The case exterior, and the inside lid seem to be o.k. Gera is a town in ?Reuss, I believe, which is one of the Saxony Thuringen States.

At the very least, I would suggest that the lower fitted insert section for the Turkish/Gallipoli Star has been messed with, or at worst it not even original to the case. Look at the sloppiness of the fit around the corners, and at the edges. I would venture a bet that it has at the very least been pulled out of the case more than once, and more than likely this fitted insert for the Turkish/Gallipoli Star is not original to the case itself.

When is the last time any of us has seen an original, un-messed with case that has this type of sloppy mis-fitting of the corners for the medal/badge/award in the lower part of the case, and along the edges of this velvet covered fitted interior not matching smoothly and flush up to the inner walls and corners of the case? My suspicion is that the lower fitted portion of the case is an original fitted section, but that it is not original to this case.

Best Regards,

Alan