Krim Shield for Review

[Tiff97]

Hi Doug
http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...threadid=25205
Here's the link you can view
it is precisely this type of shield
I hope this helps you
KR Andrei

[hlynur76]

I believe what you're seeing is just a play of lighting and shadows here. We see this sometimes depending on the angle the light is hitting the high points and it makes the image appear reversed. Happens quite often when making enlagements of things like makers marks, where the recessed letters appear actually to be raised from the surrounding surface but, that isn't really the case.

If you look closely at the far left and right protrusions of the Krim land mass, you can see they extend out over the edge border line on the shield and this is higher than the sea area of the stamping.
Tim

Thank you Tim. It was difficult to explaine this, specially if your English is not good.

This picture trick your mind big time

[Tim B.]

Tim, I have just tried the process of manufacturing badges with soldered prongs compared to ones done with the pressed tabs (theoretically) and yes I agree the process is more simplified and would save time and money. I am surprised that with the methodical efficiency of German manufacturing this design was not thought about earlier in the badge’s production.


Hi Doug,

Hard to say exactly, as we continue to see both style of attachments used throughout the Krim/Demjansk/Kuban shield series. If we look at the progression of shields from start to finish though, we do not see any Narvik (1940) or Cholm (1942) shields utilizing the edge tabs.

Of the vast majority of Krim shields (1941-42) found, the ones with the center flat prong-type pins seem to be more in abundance than the examples with edge tabs. Of those maker's that used both (i/e: Orth; Maedicke; ?) I believe the concensus is the pins preceeded those with the tabs based on period examples that were discussed in the past but, don't quote me on that anymore as its been awhile and new information is always coming to light.

A quick sidenote here, both the Cholm and Krim continued to be bestowed upon members until April 1943, though there were less awards of the Cholm which might have sometime to do with lack of variations.

It would certainly make sense to streamline the manufacturing process to save time and materials, especially as the war progressed and materials became more scarce. We also see a transistion towards zinc from earlier metals that were now considered "war essential" by mid 1943.

As far as the Kuban and Demjansk shields go, it appears its more of a maker issue than timeline, as the type of attachment is particular to the specific style of shield being discussed. As an example, using the Demjansk shield for discussion here, we see the so-called short-neck Demjansk and another one that could be from the same maker, utilizing the edge tabs while all other Demjansk use the flat prongs. So, it may be manufacturers transitioning over during this time as requirements changed.

I want to add, that though we do see some variation in attachment components on these shields, I honestly feel most of it came down to what was available on hand at time of manufacturing. So, if we see flat pins or round pins or combinations of both, I wouldn't personally put any critical thought or emphasis on it. Instead, concentrate on the die characteristics of the shield itself. Clearly though, having to separately manufacture, then solder, each attaching pin to the shield would become a time/cost expense that would be seriously looked at as the war progressed.

In the case of edge tabs vs attaching pins though, we see a clear change in the manufacturing process. Perhaps the dies remained the same and all that had to happen was the metal planchet being stamped was changed to have the edge tabs incorporated into the blank prior to stamping.

Tim

[Tim B.]

Thank you Tim. It was difficult to explaine this, specially if your English is not good.

This picture trick your mind big time

No problem, I am very happy to see you here and really getting into the shields!
Tim

[hlynur76]

Thank you Tim. It was difficult to explaine this, specially if your English is not good.

This picture trick your mind big time

No problem, I am very happy to see you here and really getting into the shields!
Tim

Thanks Tim, more study is needed and of corse bigger collection

[saladin]

Hi Tim,
This is a comprehensive thought study you have here.
I was never really a shield collector as when I was a youngster the Iron Cross or other ‘dangly’ medals had more of an appeal to me.
I have begun to look at collecting arm shields as another arm of my collecting bug.

One of my thoughts is tabbed shields would be easier to lose off the uniform rather than the soldered pin variants, but considering the scarcity of metals that would be more useful to the war effort I still think the Germans would have put a lot of thought into the badge manufacturing process.

I kowtow to your collecting experience in this field and appreciate it and the information about the various shields and issue periods.

I still think there is room for more discussion in the collectors world for example take a standard war badge struck in tombak. This would be far more time consuming putting all the individual components together compared to a zinc die cast badge of the later years but I am sure the process only changed not because of the scarcity of the more noble metals but because of the ease of producing something that was adequately passable by the inspections office.

I have never heard of any of the major badge manufacturers making warlike stores (I may be wrong) hence why have the need to speed up production or simplify manufacture?
To answer my own questions. To speed the process up would I believe be because of the increased usage as the war years progress and the need for more badges to issue, The simplification would have come around as a natural consequence because of this ‘speeding up’ process
I still just have this gut feeling that the badge materials didn’t change because of the shortage of the good stuff it is because a simpler and better technique was discovered

All the best
Doug

[Tim B.]

Hi Doug,

I think if you look into the issue of transitioning from the earlier metals to zinc, you'll find that not only was it a desire to save materials deemed war essential but, an actual order from the LDO to stop using materials like steel and brass for awards. I believe that order came down in early to mid '43.

We see the same transition in WWI as time progressed.

Tim

[saladin]

Thank you Tim,
your information has been invaluable

All the best
Doug

[saladin]

Hello Tim and Andrei,
well the shield arrived today and I am very pleased.
On very close inspection it is the same shield as you Tim have posted on number 8 and it is the same shield Andrei that you gave me the link to.

My apologies for the pictures it is my old camera that I used (a 2 meg) but I have popped a couple of the front on..the back was too blurred to post

So many thanks to you both..I just need a backplate to match now

Kind regards
Doug

[Tiff97]

Hello Tim and Andrei,
well the shield arrived today and I am very pleased.
On very close inspection it is the same shield as you Tim have posted on number 8 and it is the same shield Andrei that you gave me the link to.

My apologies for the pictures it is my old camera that I used (a 2 meg) but I have popped a couple of the front on..the back was too blurred to post

So many thanks to you both..I just need a backplate to match now

Kind regards
Doug

Hi Doug
once again my congratulations
it is super mega rare type of shield Krim
glad that helped
KR Andrei

[Tim B.]

Thought I would bump this up with another PIC that plays with the eyes. This shows how a minor shift in lighting and shadows can make something appear wrong.

This was taken off another thread and is a different style Krim; completely original and if you look long enough, the letters and details can appear to be raised, even though they are recessed.

Tim