Ek2 Ribbons

[Dennis J]

I have seen this question asked a few times but I have yet to see an answer(could be me).How do you tell a orig ek2 ribbon from a fake or a modern day piece of junk they call a replacement ribbon that does not glow when a black light hits it but makes the medal look out of place with it's nice age mounted on this new piece of junk..What should I look for?Thanks in advance.

Enjoy your hobby
Dennis J

[Don D.]

Dennis, that is a good question. EK2 ribbon was manufactured for over 150 years. Even if you narrow it down to the 1914 series crosses that period still covers 50 years or so. Here are some ribbons to look at and compare.
I know #1 is called new, old stock. It is probalby post WW2 at best, perhaps late WW2 but I doubt it.
#2 +3 are off crosses that I've had since I was a kid and you can see the difference in weave compared to #1. Number 3 still had the black safety pin used to pin the award to the tunic when presented to the winner but as a kid I put no importance in that and used it for something else. None the less, I believe these ribbons are wartime issue. Note the scalloped edges. Nice tight and straight.
#4 could be late war or early between war ribbon. The quality is lacking but it still features the scalloping.
The unmarked two don't match any of the above knowns. The one on the far left actually stretches a bit.

The best thing to do IMO is examine good medal bars and note the ribbon style, construction, and materials.
Hope this helps.

[Dennis J]

ek2 ribbons

Dennis, that is a good question. EK2 ribbon was manufactured for over 150 years. Even if you narrow it down to the 1914 series crosses that period still covers 50 years or so. Here are some ribbons to look at and compare.
I know #1 is called new, old stock. It is probalby post WW2 at best, perhaps late WW2 but I doubt it.
#2 +3 are off crosses that I've had since I was a kid and you can see the difference in weave compared to #1. Number 3 still had the black safety pin used to pin the award to the tunic when presented to the winner but as a kid I put no importance in that and used it for something else. None the less, I believe these ribbons are wartime issue. Note the scalloped edges. Nice tight and straight.
#4 could be late war or early between war ribbon. The quality is lacking but it still features the scalloping.
The unmarked two don't match any of the above knowns. The one on the far left actually stretches a bit.

The best thing to do IMO is examine good medal bars and note the ribbon style, construction, and materials.
Hope this helps.

Yes Don this helps alot and I know that the other members will like this info as well.I too as a kid had one with the safty pin on the ribbon and thought that somebody put this on to wear it on their coats as a way to wear the medal and show it off.Boy was I wrong,I wish I had it back.Thanks again for the Info.
I would also like to know what you and other forum members think of medals being sold with these new replacement ribbons?I don't like it because they charge you more for the medal because it has a ribbon with it even though it is a fake.

Enjoy your hobby
Dennis J

[Ammersee]

Good quality replacement ribbon is better than the alternative when you don't have any original ribbon at all. Replacement ribbon looks best on mint condition medals. Like you said, old ones with heavy patina really clash with the new ribbon. Ammersee

[CSForrester]

An important point is the quality of production. Old ribbons were produced in a very high density (? please excuse my bad english ) an have on 3cm more than 40 "shots" from side to side.
All modern productions are "weak" and have i.g. 36-38 "shots" per 3 cm. Perhaps this picture will help, in the middle a modern, uv-negative copy(39), left (50)and right (47)old original ribbons.
The second point is the negative blacklight proof.

Best regards
CSForrester

[CSForrester]

Here some other ribbons to compare. Modern productions -doesnt matter if cotton or synthetics - have a thicker (? ) thread and so less shots per cm. This leads also to a higher weight of modern ribbons. The reason is the progress in weaving-methods and it is much more difficult today to weave very thin materials.

Regards
CSForrester

[Dennis J]

ek2 ribbons

Here some other ribbons to compare. Modern productions -doesnt matter if cotton or synthetics - have a thicker (? ) thread and so less shots per cm. This leads also to a higher weight of modern ribbons. The reason is the progress in weaving-methods and it is much more difficult today to weave very thin materials.

Regards
CSForrester

First off nothing wrong with your english I wish my German was as good.This is great info that all forum members are learning from. Thanks.

Dennis J

[CSForrester]

Thank you, Dennis !
If i visit a show or collectors meeting i always have a transparent plastic envelope with some cm of different ribbons, original and copy, in my pocket. At least the feeling for the silk, hard woven ribbon is a factor that i cant describe with words .......... everyone must make this experience.
May be some engineers amoung us can construct a nice tool to count the shots ....... the stamp collectors have clever tools to count the teeth

Best regards
CSForrester

[Ammersee]

CS, here is a pic that clearly shows the difference between period ribbon and modern. The top medal bar is an original. The other is a copy that I made. You can see immediately how coarse the new ribbon is. Instead of "shots", I would use the word "ribs". Ammersee

[CSForrester]

Hello Ammersee,
yes, that shows it clear.
Shot is the direct translation i made from the german term "Schuss". In german, the long threads parallel to the length are called "Kett-faden or Kette" means chain-thread or chain. Between these the other thread is "shot" from left to right to left to right and so on. So this is called in german "Schuss-Faden or simply Schuss. A woven ribbon alwayls consists from Kette and Schuss.
I think there are also special english terms for these threads, perhaps someone can ask an expert ?

Best regards
CSForrester

[Ammersee]

Very interesting. I imagine you are correct and there are special terms in English for "shute and kette". I know a commercial ribbon seller that deals directly with the Off-Ray Co., a large US ribbon maker. I will send her an email and see if she can find out for us. Ammersee