Danzig Badge

[Chris Boonzaier]

Klietmann says he did not think they existed and there were no photos of it being worn.
He could not see any reason for it having existed. Before the war they had no Flak, during the war they had regular Flak... Where would such a badge fit in ?
I think Formann found a photo of one once, and although I had my photo of it up on the forum ages ago, I thought it would be interesting to see if there are any new views about it and the uniform of the guy wearing it.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Any guesses ?

[Rick Research]

My best guess would be that since Danzig was beyond all Allied air range until the Soviet Spring '45 offensive, there was zero opportunity for normal flak badges to be awarded: no Allied planes to be downed, no Allied planes to be spotted...nothing, really, for flak to do!

This same stretch of Baltic was also the heartland of First world war bizarre combatant-noncombatant EK2 (see Imperial Forum), so there was a "tradition" of Odd Stuff thereabouts, I guess!

[Chris Boonzaier]

Unless they were shooting down Russians...
But I am still not in the clear if it was a unit badge or an award... and on the right hand side ?
Check out buddies uniform...
Overseas hat with a metal cockade, early droop tail eagle on the jacket, looks like captains or 1st LT boards, maybe with a device... but NCO collar tabs !!!
I assume silver cord around the collar, piped trousers.
If there are any photo experts out there, and it helps at all, the photo paper it is printed on is AGFABIOVIRA, maybe that could help date the shot ?
I assume that whenever this was, regular luftwaffe uniforms were not availible.
From his uniform and the nature around him, I dont think this was in winter 44-45....
Can anyone post the photo in Formans book ? I have not seen it.

[George Stimson]

Kind of light, but here it is (from the 4th edition).
George

[Rick Research]

The guy in the first photo is an Oberfa"hnrich. Luftwaffe is my least-expertise branch, but the officer's silver braid etc etc was worn with same-as-Oberfeldwebel shoulder straps, and the collar tabs were worn without the normal NCO collar edging. I have also seen tabs with officers' silver cord edging (? for overcoats?).

Other strange warrant officer ranks wore similar uniforms. In the army, Oberfeuerwerker wore artillery officer uniform with "Oberfeldwebel" shoulder boards, and Oberfa"hnriche also wore officers' tunics with their NCO shoulder straps.

There is probably a device between the two shoulder strap pips, so nothing shows of the tunic color in the photo.

Placement on the right pocket would seem to indicate a "tradition" sort of badge, rather than an "award" per se.

[ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

[Chris Boonzaier]

Are you sure ? looks like a LT or hauptmanns set of boards to me.

Georges photo shows a drooptail eagle as well. I dont have my books here (all in my "cave") but Iseem to remember (from the collar) that this is the ealier form of 4 pocket jacket.
Maybe these things really are very early or pre war.

[George Stimson]

Chris,
You say "Klietmann says he did not think they existed," and yet Forman credits Klietmann for the example pictured in his price guides. Hmmmm....
George

[Chris Boonzaier]

I guess the Klietmann reference was a bit older and they turned up later. Maybe I should make a move and get the newer edition.

[Rick Research]

Nope: strap is too wide. The little spots of darker color in the center would be the uniform color between button and top pip, between top and bottom of center device (numbers? letters?), and at bottom of lower pip.

I've been looking at blurry smudged pictures for too many years... it's a wonder I can pass my driver's license renewals any more...

ah, the sacrifices I make for Collecting!

[ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

[George Stimson]

Chris,
The entry is exactly the same in Forman's Second Edition, except the price is different. (Correction: the pic in the earlier post is from the 3rd Ed., not the
non-existent 4th.)
George

[Shawn Rawls]

I would say they must be some kind of unit badge (pre-war). Danzig wouldn't have had many flak battalions and as mentioned earlier they didn't have anything to shoot at until late in the war. I do know I would like to have one for myself. Wolfe Hardin had one at the Max this year.

If you ever get tired of that pic you know where to find me

[ 28 December 2001: Message edited by: Shawn Rawls ]

[Hugh W. Brock]

Have looked in my Klietmann DEUTSCHE AUSZEICHNUNGEN (2 volumes) and both of the Klietmann (Motorbuch Verlag) books (AUSZEICHNUNGEN DES DEUTSCHEN REICHES 1936-45 and STAATLICHE-ZIVILE AUSZEICHNUNGEN)and cannot find any mention of Danzig at all. Am I missing a book?

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Danzig Badge

Not a lot of info out there on this badge, can anyone expand on the background of it? Comments?

[Richard]

This badge appears to be an unknown quantity. I think that Klietmann gives this the best treatment. He states that this award has been known about since at least the 60's. Speculation exists as to whether this is an actual or repro badge. It comes in both metal and cloth versions. He asks the question as to why a badge like this would even exist. There were no Danzig Flak units in 1939 and up until 1945 the Luftwaffe issued its badge to all flak units. He feels that by the time Danzig was threatened, embattled and eventually lost, the opportunity or incentive to create such an award seems rather a long shot.
Richard V