DRL Badge Idenification

[pdawg1911]

Does anyone know who made this DRL badge ? I have included some closeups of the hardware.

Thanks
Pat

[pdawg1911]

The closeups.

[pdawg1911]

Maybe I should be asking if it is real ?

[Br. James]

Hi Pat,

While I like the workmanship of the obverse and the pin mounting on the reverse, I am suspicious of any DRL Sports Badge without either the manufacturer's name or the D.R.G.M. number representing the national design registration code appearing in relief on the reverse. This may just be my own personal bias, but there it is!

The short answer to your question as to the maker of this piece is "no!"

Br. James

[pdawg1911]

Hi Pat,

While I like the workmanship of the obverse and the pin mounting on the reverse, I am suspicious of any DRL Sports Badge without either the manufacturer's name or the D.R.G.M. number representing the national design registration code appearing in relief on the reverse. This may just be my own personal bias, but there it is!

The short answer to your question as to the maker of this piece is "no!"

Br. James

Br. James,

In a prior thread you wrote that "Ernst Schneider is without the DRGM declaration." So has that opinion changed, or does this particular example not look like a Ernst Scnneider variant ?

Thanks
Pat

[speedytop]

Hi Pat,

in my opinon it is made post May 1945.

It does not have the design of any marked sports badges of all the known makers of the DRL sports badge with swastika.

Ignoring copies, I know two different badges without maker marks. Both don't have a design like the marked badges.

There are two original sports badges without any hint for the design patent (Geschmacksmuster), made by Ernst Schneider and Fritz Kohm.

Uwe

[Br. James]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for jogging my memory! I believe what I was previously referring to was that the D.R.G.M. registration was effective for three years after the license number was granted, and thereafter ceased to be in effect; any other manufacturer could then pick up the product or design in question. This badge design dates from 1937, so after 1940 it was free to be duplicated without concern for the D.R.G.M. registration number. That would refer to DRL badges w/swastikas where the maker's name is found on the reverse but not the D.R.G.M. number. While it's possible that some manufacturers did produce DRL badges after 1940 without anything on the reverse whatsoever -- like this piece -- such badges make me as uncomfortable as do dagger blades without any maker's mark or RZM license code on their reverse ricasso! They may be legitimate, as well, but ...!! And again, that's just my personal bias!

Br. James

[tranchant]

DRL bz

hello
for my opinion in this hight quality, this badge is ORIGINAL!
best regards
patrick

[pdawg1911]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for jogging my memory! I believe what I was previously referring to was that the D.R.G.M. registration was effective for three years after the license number was granted, and thereafter ceased to be in effect; any other manufacturer could then pick up the product or design in question. This badge design dates from 1937, so after 1940 it was free to be duplicated without concern for the D.R.G.M. registration number. That would refer to DRL badges w/swastikas where the maker's name is found on the reverse but not the D.R.G.M. number. While it's possible that some manufacturers did produce DRL badges after 1940 without anything on the reverse whatsoever -- like this piece -- such badges make me as uncomfortable as do dagger blades without any maker's mark or RZM license code on their reverse ricasso! They may be legitimate, as well, but ...!! And again, that's just my personal bias!

Br. James

I appreciate the feedback. The fact that there is no mark doesn't bother me as we know for a fact that there are daggers, badges, medals, etc that were made without identification markings. I was hoping initially that some one would recognize the hinges on this one to see if there was a match with a known maker.

Thanks
Pat

[Br. James]

I couldn't agree more, Pat. The 'problem,' as I see it, is that with all such unmarked pieces, the difficulty arises when one tries to sell the piece. Since very few collectors -- and I am one of them -- secures hard provenance with a piece that directly links it back to the original recipient, or even a reputable dealer, such pieces tend to cast doubt upon themselves right from the beginning. While I have heard many collectors over the decades say that there were unmarked pieces of all sorts of memorabilia produced during the TR era, when you are asking for hard cash for a piece, the absence of established marks -- such as a manufacturer's name or logo -- works against confidence in the sale/purchase.

Once again, this is just my opinion... Cheers, my friend,

Br. James

[pdawg1911]

I couldn't agree more, Pat. The 'problem,' as I see it, is that with all such unmarked pieces, the difficulty arises when one tries to sell the piece. Since very few collectors -- and I am one of them -- secures hard provenance with a piece that directly links it back to the original recipient, or even a reputable dealer, such pieces tend to cast doubt upon themselves right from the beginning. While I have heard many collectors over the decades say that there were unmarked pieces of all sorts of memorabilia produced during the TR era, when you are asking for hard cash for a piece, the absence of established marks -- such as a manufacturer's name or logo -- works against confidence in the sale/purchase.

Once again, this is just my opinion... Cheers, my friend,

Br. James

Of course a mark doesn't by itself eliminate a fake. There are many fake items that have maker's mark as well. To me it isn't the presence of a maker mark that bonifides an object, it is whether it manifests the properties and characteristics of known manufacture.

Hence why I ask for feedback on this esteemed site !

Regards,
Pat

[speedytop]

Hi Br. James,

"This badge design dates from 1937 ..."

No, the badge design dates from 1934/1935.
And the same number 35269 you can find on the earlier DRA sports badges.

"...the D.R.G.M. registration was effective for three years after the license number was granted, and thereafter ceased to be in effect"

No.
For a Gebrauchsmuster it was 3 years and possible 3 other years, and you have to pay for both periods.
The number 35269 is not for a Gebrauchsmuster, it is for a Geschmacksmuster.
For a Geschmacksmuster it was 1-3 years and possible 12 other years (maximum 15 years); when you pay for it.


Hi patrick,

"for my opinion in this hight quality, this badge is ORIGINAL!"

You can find post war sports badges (DRL without swastika) in the same high quality. They are definitely not ORIGINAL!

Uwe

[pdawg1911]

Uwe,

It is odd that someone would painstakingly make a high quality reproduction and not put the identifier on. Kind of like counterfeiting money and leaving the serial numbers off.

Regards

[pdawg1911]

In regards to the history of this badge it was purchased from a board member who obtained it from Bill Shea.

Thanks,
Pat

[speedytop]

Hi pdawg1911,

"It is odd that someone would painstakingly make a high quality reproduction and not put the identifier on."

We are here in Germany in the post war time, where it was strictly forbidden by the allies, to produce anything with Nazi symbols. But some did it.
Would you have written your name on it in that time?

Please notice, that the statements about the originality of such badges are my personal opinion, based on my knowledge and my experience.

The statements about the regulations (e.g. Geschmacksmuster) are based on primary sources.

Uwe