Kriegsmarine/Reichsmarine/Imperial/Bundesmarine Cap Tallies

[John R.]

Hello Bernd,

For the information of the forum, Bernd is one of the foremost students of Germany cap tallies and the author of the book I posted earlier on Imperial/Kais. Marine tallies along with Markus.

The Imperial tally book is available for sale by PM to Bernd and he can give you further instructions. Well worth it even if you do not own a single Imperial tally (yet). If this is not correct Bernd, let me know.

He is also working on the KM book edition which will reveal many interesting aspects to this area of collecting and I look forward to its publication with great anticipation. I know it will be a while yet.

To his concern about storage I have done this for many years with no apparent damage so far. One of the reasons might be is that my cannisters are in a commercial climate controlled storage vault.

John

[JustinG]

This is indeed a tricky question. Now there is a question on what method seems to be the best way to preserve these pieces of history.

You know it's funny, Why is there no one here on these forums that is a museum Curator?
My kingdom for one of these people to give us the answer.

I too am eagerly awaiting an answer as I, don't have the heat and humidity problem (here in Alaska) or the air smog problem. I do also keep the tallies in a not too exposed to direct sunlight to prevent fading. I want to do everything in my power to preserve the tallies that are in my charge.

The thing that makes me chuckle, These tallies were issued to men who were in a salt water/air environment, to be able to uphold and keep in their lockers.
Shy of 70 years later, here is a group of collectors trying to preserve this important and specific historical symbol. (I think it is a little humerous)

Regards,
JustinG

[John R.]

Museum curators are not always the best people to ask. The real world of your house is not a museum. I have also seen curators make a big mess of things and amateur collectors create home masterpieces for display rooms.

This has been argued back and forth since the forum was established. There are many opinions and in the end, just use some common sense I think but listen to what others have to say.

Some believe you should put vaseline on badges, others do not. Some badges were fine for 60 years, they go to Florida and a year later, they look like heck. Why? Humidity, smog, heat, who knows?

Many things to consider. For me, humidity/climate controlled storage without exposure to sunlight or smog is most important. I wish I could have them on display but work constraints make this impractical for me.

I am envious of those that can have beautiful displays, but each situation is unique.

John

[Junker47]

First: I am the man, of whom John told, and I would like to apologize for my English.
Tallies survived 70 years, but the conditions become ever more harmful.
I keep tallies separately in pergament bags in the size 10 x 15 cm. Tallies are put loosely into the bags and stored horizontally in an acidless cardboard.
Bernd

[John R.]

Bernd is saying for each of his tallies, he puts them individually in a pergament bag with the dimensions stated above. Those bags are then put on top of each other in an acid free cardboard box or boxes depending on how many tallies you have.


John

[Hirschstein]

John

first thank you for your previous reply to my question(s)

so can we assume or no that placing them individually in small plastic-zip-lock bags until mounted might cause some harm overall or ........ ? I have done so over the years with data on each unit/ship in a very well protected dark condition in 3 ring binders.

welcome aboard Bernd !

Erich ~

[John R.]

John

first thank you for your previous reply to my question(s)

so can we assume or no that placing them individually in small plastic-zip-lock bags until mounted might cause some harm overall or ........ ? I have done so over the years with data on each unit/ship in a very well protected dark condition in 3 ring binders.

welcome aboard Bernd !

Erich ~

I would use Bernd's system of pergament/parchment paper/envelopes, not ziplock bags. I do not think 35mm cannisters are quite like ziplock bags although both are plastic. Make sure the envelope/bag is acid free, archival safe.

The original cap tallies were sold in paper by the way. I will find an image if I can.

The problem of course exists for complete caps, uniforms, badges--goes on and on. Tallies can lay flat, but a badge can't nor a uniform of course. Bernd is correct that 2009 is not 1939 in regards to pollution, although parts of Germany were polluted of course as well as every other country in the world at the time. I think generally speaking it is much worse today due to auto emissions among many other factors. I am not trying to get into an environmental discussion and we will not go in that direction here. Let it suffice that we need to be cautious of possible adverse effects of the environemnt where you might live when considering how to store or display any item from this period.

Thank you Bernd for the recommendation.

John

[John R.]

I have a pile of the original issue packing paper, but will have to locate them. You will see them referred to by German sellers as "Verpackungspapiers ".

John

[JustinG]

So what is the overall consensus for temperature /humidity control?

Very interesting.
I have a room that is kept around 60-70's year round. The humidity is controlled by a dehumidifier for a range of 35% humidity. I still choose to display the tallies in a presentation style. I am not much for keeping items tucked away. My display is not exposed to direct sun light,
In fact, for about half the year, that room gets absolutely no sun. (ALASKA humor).

I have some tallies that i purchased that have the issuing papers with them. I don't have them displayed but have them in an acid free envelope and in a acid free felt lined wooden box.


There has not been a section or a posting that was for people who were maintaining uniform items and such, to display their caps, tunics, etc from becoming affected by these conditions.

What temperature do you keep your room at John?

As you said, there are lots of conditions that make one persons collection more vunerable.

This has been great information guys.


I am glad haveing such wonderful suggestions, tips and overall, a huge knowledge base of collectors participating in this thread.

Thank you Bernd for sharing those great suggestions.

With Regards,
JustinG

[JustinG]

My new tallies, I will post the Deutchland and others when I get them.


Regards,
Justin G

[Trance_Eyes]

Nice Tallies Mate

Is it just me or is there a lot of Karlsruhe Tallies around? Just seem to pop up everywhere?

Regarding the paper packaging for the Tallies, the collectors guild had a few still in their wrapping but they have been sold and taken down recently in their updates.

[JustinG]

I also have really taken to these little portable small mini dehumidifiers.
You can pick them up on amazon for a very reasonable price. They last for about 9-11 days and then I just plug them in to US 110v outlet and in about 4 hours, it is ready to go back to work.

Eva-dry Renewable EDV-300/E-333 Wireless Mini Dehumidifer

These are self contained and can be stored upright, lying down, there is no motor or heat generated from this device. I just am sharing this because I think that this device helps. Really nice to help with any zinc badges to prevent any zincpest. I have one behind my matting board of my campaign shield and cuff collection.

Regards,
JustinG

[John R.]

Nice Tallies Mate

Is it just me or is there a lot of Karlsruhe Tallies around? Just seem to pop up everywhere?

It is always changing. Just like badges, you can go for months and years and not see what you want then they appear.

John

[John R.]

In regards to tally storage, while Bernd's system is probably the best, I see no problem short or long term with the 35mm cannisters. If film can be stored there, so can a tally. Plus, it is sealed from the air and in my case, those cannisters are in a climate controlled area, in other words, cold dehumidified air. I would not leave them in the cannister in the sunlight in other words or high heat high humidity conditions.

Plastic storage bags, I do not trust really. I think there might be a problem, these are far less "solid" than a cannister.

In addition, the cannisters allow you to roll the tally and avoid creases. If you fold a tally long term, there will be creases and wrinkles and this can also cause problems. I roll the tally on a pencil and then slip the tally off and into the cannister.

So there are advantages and disadvantages to displays and storage and in the end, you need to go with what you are most comfortable.

John

[John R.]

Regarding the paper packaging for the Tallies, the collectors guild had a few still in their wrapping but they have been sold and taken down recently in their updates.

I have a lot of these but unfortunately, I have no access to them for the time being. These are not the same thing as what Bernd is talking about. The paper protected the letters of the tally when issued, the bag what Bernd is referring to is what the tallies were placed into, I think in groups of 10.

John