Copper and Light brown M44 shoulder boards ?

[Maxoumilitaria]

Hi guys,

The difference between copper brown (Kradschützen) and light brown (Baupioniere for the Heer and KZ for the SS) is always a point of discussions, I would like to get your opinions on these M44 shoulder boards (mostly on the colours, I’m quite confident about them being original).

Looking only at the colour, I would say the pair are copper brown (some examples are visible here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=brown+m44) and the single board is Light Brown.

Now the Baupioniere were merged into the Pionere in October 1943 (as already mentioned by Derka when I first presented the single board: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...387536&page=13) so before the M44 were introduced. If it’s not light brown then I don’t know what it is as it’s quite close (but somehow darker) from the “light brown” from the SS KZ boards presented here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=437624&page=3).


At the end, I would like to get your opinions on the piping of these boards and the branch of arms they belong to.

Thanks!!

Max

[Maxoumilitaria]

Some more pictures

[Fred Green]

Hello,

I believe that you are right on target. To me the pair is copper brown and the single is light brown. Maybe the single is for a Luftwaffe unit?!?

Fred

[Johnny R]

The Bau (German Soldiers/Army units) waffenfarbe was changed but I doubt all the units fully converted to black piping and it probably still was worn. The dull brown color was worn (not changed by regulations in Oct. 1943) by unformed Heer personnel assigned to to POW construction/labor units until the end of the War.

[Johnny R]

The pair to me looks on the fence between copper brown and orange red. The worn tops look more copper brown but the back to me looks closer to the field police color.

[galizien41]

The pair is luft signals brown color piping. There was several meters of it found last year. I even bought a meter or so. If I 100% believed in the pair I would have bid and won those.

But I guess these days if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. The pair is super well made, so I am not sure if they are good or newly made super fakes.

[Maxoumilitaria]

Thanks for your answers!

The Bau (German Soldiers/Army units) waffenfarbe was changed but I doubt all the units fully converted to black piping and it probably still was worn. The dull brown color was worn (not changed by regulations in Oct. 1943) by unformed Heer personnel assigned to to POW construction/labor units until the end of the War.

I totally believe that it was still worn after October 1943 as already distributed insignia weren't not "exchanged" for new ones every time the regulations changed but I found more surprising that they would keep producing them after the change of regulation. Now I didn't know about the POW construction units so that would be an explanation. Thanks.

The pair to me looks on the fence between copper brown and orange red. The worn tops look more copper brown but the back to me looks closer to the field police color.

I agree that the back on the pictures look very orange, more than the front. Having them in hands, I confirm that they aren't Feldgendarmerie. They are notably darker than that.

The pair is luft signals brown color piping. There was several meters of it found last year. I even bought a meter or so. If I 100% believed in the pair I would have bid and won those.

But I guess these days if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. The pair is super well made, so I am not sure if they are good or newly made super fakes.

Haha I see, good we didn't enter a bidding fight! Anyway thanks for the info Jerry. Considering the piping is the same you bought last year, was there the factory label indicating clearly a Luftwaffe signal?? Having them in hands, I must say that I find the colour very far from the Luftwaffe brown one (lighter and somewhat with a more orange ton)...

[Fred Green]

Hello Max,

Having them in hands, I must say that I find the colour very far from the Luftwaffe brown one (lighter and somewhat with a more orange ton)...

I have to agree with you here. My monitor shows a red brown for the pair and a distinct Luftwaffe signals brown on the single.

Fred<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Johnny R]

You have to be careful photographing these. Light brown can look very different with and without flash and in different lighting. I apparently need to pay my membership dues as I cannot post images .

[brooksbz]

So you are saying the single on the right is a modern repro using vintage materials? This is now known because some Luft Nachrichten piping was sold on eBay last year?

[Johnny R]

Here are examples of what I was talking about with another late war light brown piped board and an earlier example that I know is Bau. First is without a flash and the second is with. The second image is closest to the color in hand.

[Johnny R]

Here is an image showing the construction of the later board.

[Maxoumilitaria]

Here are examples of what I was talking about with another late war light brown piped board and an earlier example that I know is Bau. First is without a flash and the second is with. The second image is closest to the color in hand.

Thanks for the comparison. On your pictures without the flash the "bau" light brown shows some "copper - reddish" ton while it's "pure brown" with the flash.

I took some more picture outside, without flash and only natural light (the light in my apartment sometimes gives a yellowish ton). Here are they below. I tried all types of exposure (sun / no sun / flash / no flash ) but somehow the pictures always show a slightly brighter ton for the pair on the left.

Thanks again for your comments!

[Maxoumilitaria]

One more

[Johnny R]

The single is the same as the one I posted. Here are two images (taken with and without a flash) of more copper brown examples compared to the late war Bau board with the slide and an NCO bau board on the right. I think the piping is the same as your pair?