Ss 822/38

[Don Scowen]

I've been requested by a fellow forum member to post my latest buckle. So here it is.

Cheers
Don

[Don Scowen]

Reverse

[Don Scowen]

Maker mark

[Francesco]

Hi Don,

I have one peer but not so beautiful conditions.
really nice buckle.....compliment

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Don, I have an "822/38" alloy buckle which has featured on this forum before and got the

The makers code and date markings on yours are very different.

Here is a pic.

Cheers, Ade.

[Don Scowen]

Hi Don, I have an "822/38" alloy buckle which has featured on this forum before and got the

The makers code and date markings on yours are very different.

Here is a pic.

Cheers, Ade.

Hi Ade,

Yes it is very different isn't it. From what I understand, there are 3 very different styles of mark for this year. I have a comparison picture that I could post but it isn't mine, it belongs to JP. Perhaps he will post it or allow me to on his behalf.

Cheers
Don

[SScollector]

Does anyone know who this maker was?

Thanks! Chris

[David North]

Don

A quite stunning SS and probably one of the best that I have ever seen - thankyou for sharing.

I think we sometimes forget what some of the aluminium buckles look like in an issued or mint form and towards this SS, the crip and sharp obverse detail is quite superb. Also, the original and factory applied dull silver paint, still being totally intact!

A brilliant buckle.

You are right towards the variation of size and style seen in relation to the makers mark and also, it is now generally accepted that for the prime three SS contract numbers :-

36 for Overhoff, 155 for Assmann and 822 for Dicke.

Regards,

David

[David North]

I think the style on mine is the same as Adrians, even though our images have been taken at a different angle.

Regards,

David

[Yuri D.]

Here's the same buckle from my collection:

[Yuri D.]

Reverse of the buckle:

[David North]

Yuri

As with Don's - a fabulous buckle.

Interesting to note however a difference in construction to the two types shown. Reverse of Don's and yours displays a small section of the roundel against the belt hook catch, whilst the one that Adrian and I showed, does not.

Regards,

David

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

The makers code and date markings on yours are very different

Indeed, with different die as well. As said previously, there was 3 different series of aluminum SS EM buckles made in 1938 by maker 822 (been C.T.Dicke so far by the common consensus).
Following are photos Don was talking about (by the way, anyone can post photos I already uploaded to the web to further help others or to increase the learning potential of a thread. Just write a note to who belongs the photo).

Regarding who was maker 822, your current moderator and I introduced few years ago one potential evidence it could be C.T.Dicke . I should add that C.T.Dicke been maker 822 is in jeopardy for the following reason: 822 been C.T.Dicke is based ONLY because one 822/37 SS Buckle has been found with a RZM tag stamped with M4/22 (so leading to believe C.T.Dicke factory). Any other 822 SS buckle with tag remaining known in collections have blank tag. So, at the time of this find we put a name on maker 822 as C.T.Dicke. But this was maybe an error since in later happened four things which are leading to believe otherwise: the first was a year later the discovery of an unmarked SS buckle made by Overhoff with a RZM tag stamped ... M4/39 (Assmann)!! This buckle is currently in my collection along with some other evidence different SS Buckles made by Overhoff were in fact sold by Assmann. So, were those tags put on the SS buckles by the maker or by the final reseller? The later buckle tend to say not always by the maker... Anyway, I still don't know completely what was the relation buckle/tag but if the tag was placed by the final reseller, it could also mean the 822 SS buckle found with M4/22 tag was sold by C.T.Dicke but not obligatory made by him. The 2nd point was to realize some Police SS buckles (Police buckles made under RZM/SS contract) marked M4/22 and RZM 257/40 SS or RZM 257/41 SS were made with the exact same die. So, maker under RZM/SS contract number 257 was C.T.Dicke since we are not talking here about RZM tags but die evidence. But, in addition, and this is the 3rd point, results of an investigation performed by a leading American researcher in the manufacture of SS items was that one maker could receive only one RZM/SS contract number. So, if C.T.Dicke already had # 822 (by 1937 and 1938), how could it get # 257 later (1940 and 1941)? The last point was the information provided by an active German researcher in buckles history: he brought to my attention that Richard Sieper was a major maker deeply involved in the manufacture of aluminum buckles, and this very early during the Third Reich. We already knew Sieper was contacted by the SS authorities or the RZM to manufacture SS buckles in aluminum since he produced at least a SS prototype with similar manufacture technique (Assmann did submit one also but with another catch). So, how come Assmann later got a contract and supplied the SS with aluminum buckles in 1939 and 1940 and no further records of Sieper?? Could it be in fact 822 been Sieper and supplying the SS with aluminum buckles as soon as 1937, and C.T.Dicke just one of its reseller? If this is true, several questions are finding answers.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

The 3 variants

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

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