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    #1

    Cased 1st Patt Obs badge Unmarked Type

    New for me, & could be described as new in other ways. This must be the mintiest piece I am likely to buy, especially for someone who prefers them worn!
    Just couldn't resist it, as it was described as an unmarked Juncker piece & as I had a marked Juncker it just had to be tried for. Fourtunately got the message 'Is yours'.

    Whilst impatiently waiting, I contacted Ivan who has a very nice worn badge of the same pattern. He kindly sent me his pics for comparison with mine for when it arrived. Hopefully he will be posting them on this thread soon.

    Here are a few pics, I will add some detailed ones later.

    Regards,

    Neil
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Obverse:
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      That's just gorgeous and minty fresh.

      And the back says it all... Ouch
      Last edited by Brian S; 09-21-2003, 07:21 PM.

      Comment

        #4
        Reverse:
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          Hmmm...I'm not crazy about that one. Juncker type eagle on different wreath with a "GWL" type of finish? I don't like the eagle's details and the "Deumer"-style flat spot on the pin. Just my opinion.
          Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

          Comment

            #6
            Lorenzo, I see what you're saying... just doesn't look very Juncker especially from the back.

            Could it be a weird variation that existed before the more recognised '1st pattern' went to full production??

            Rich
            Interested in hand-stitched EM/NCO LW insignia and cuff-titles
            Decorations of Germany

            Comment

              #7
              Hi Rich. I agree with you on the "weird" part only .
              Let's see what others have to say.
              Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

              Comment

                #8
                Here's the comparison with my Juncker
                Obverse:
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  Reverse:
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Hinge down:
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hinge up:
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Catch:
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hello Gentleman,

                          I never really cared much for these early-unmarked examples, for the reason that they really cannot be tied to anything. I am also suspicious of the following;

                          - The wreath finish, when referring this example as an unmarked Juncker , I have not seen a Juncker finish on the wreath like the one Neil has presented. As Lorenzo stated, “ More like a GWL finish”

                          - The wreath design itself is not what I would expect from a Juncker.

                          - The Eagle is similar to a Junker Observer, but defiantly not the same as the accepted first pattern as we know them.

                          - The hardware is also IMHO not that of Juncker.
                          - Last point , why is the Swaz scratched up and the rest of the piece mint and I mean mint ( How does that happen?) The reverse doesn’t really show signs of wear , under the hinge is clean as well as the wreath.

                          So with that said is the badge original………..can’t say for sure as I have seen them before in the flesh and they look all right. I just do not like these for the reasons stated. I mean what do you call the piece? An unmarked, Juncker or just unmarked by know known maker. Just like the unmarked LW pieces that show all the character of a GWL, BUT they are referred to and accepted as unmarked, unknown.

                          That is the same context that I put these in these unmarked ( Juncker) pieces in. I just do not see substantial aspects of the example Neil posted as being made by Junckers. Anything else I feel is speculation.

                          Honestly, I really think that Neil’s example raises some serious issues .

                          Cordially yours,
                          JD



                          -
                          What we do in life ehoes in eternity.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Neil,

                            I think this is a ultra-excellent fake. If you take a look at an original and compare the two, you will see significant differences:

                            1. Look at the feathers behind the front leg of the eagle. On the genuine one, they touch the back leg, but on this one, they do not.

                            2. Look at the rear-most claw. On the real badges it makes a long curvy crescent. On this badge it's short and deformed.

                            Looks to me like this badge came from a different die than the original J1 Observer badges.


                            Yuri

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi Neil. Compare your badge to this "CEJ" Juncker PO.
                              Same wreath; same flat spot on pin; same Deumer-style catch;
                              same small domed rivets; same unfinished wreath.

                              Methinks your badge might have originated in Florida.
                              http://photofile.homestead.com/files/pocejtucker.jpg
                              Last edited by Lorenzo Brown; 09-21-2003, 05:17 PM.
                              Visit my Badge Collection: http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/home.html

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