SS Officers eagle

[Robin Lumsden]

The back..............(maker number written in PENCIL !!)

[Bob Hritz]

The back..............(maker number written in PENCIL !!)

\
And it never had the paper backing!!!!

I believe there were many makers of these eagles.

Bob Hritz

[John Pic]

Which Eagle is yours Judas ? Please post it again for me if thats ok? I agree Bob there were many makes of these eagles back then and there are many makers of them now..you I know have examined some of Scott Babcock's more common pieces that he brings to shows all over as I have personally seen you doing so...as have many of us who want to learn more about fakery. These things were not discussed too candidly 5 -10 years ago on forums and yes Felix is correct many times I was admonished and suspended for getting into heated debate and shooting back and sometimes just for not keeping my mouth shut about who does what behind the black curtain.

If the poster of the first eagle will reveal if it has a carboard unterlagen or not the whole issue may be resolved it just takes moving a wing cord slightly to peek and look between them. But until then Im with "Hohenstaufen" and even if it does Im still not 100% convinced and safe bet would be to avoid such a piece IMO the Sieder eagles all use unterlagens which means they were made by people who knew how it was done wartime just without the quality and even some are super quality but mass produced and not seen in period photos or as souvenirs brought home by American G. I.s. This one is a Sieder which is of impecable quality and wouldve passed RZM specs easy but was not in existence during the war although the form was but with different wing highlights.. Ive exhasuted many sources trying to prove otherwise. I originally accepted these until many years ago now Gary Wood compaired it to an original version on GDC and then I noticed how many were in circulation and many on mint uniforms too.

[judas]

Which Eagle is yours Judas ?

the one on the named and documented tunic that felix posted .thanks .
felix made some good points about eagles that have been worn and so on.. trying too supper impose a eagle on top of another is ok to a point but as felix said water and wear will push things out of shape to one thats not worn ,

[John Pic]

That one looks fine to me Judas...well worn too. I think you sent me an email asking about it once and I said it was fine.

[bnz. 42]

Your animations can be HYPNOTIZING....

What you mean "can be HYPNOTIZING" - I made them to hypnotize! But how was you able to see my hidden frames?

[judas]

What you mean "can be HYPNOTIZING" - I made them to hypnotize! But how was you able to see my hidden frames?

how did they let you back after the hell you gave me last time . how do you do that with photos ?? i would like to see the first eagle that started this in a more clear and clean photo ,

[bnz. 42]

trying too supper impose a eagle on top of another is ok to a point but as felix said water and wear will push things out of shape to one thats not worn ,

Water and deformation will not change details, which are (and always were) different on three eagles that Felix posted for comparison. Those three eagles are different IMO

[bnz. 42]

how did they let you back after the hell you gave me last time .

Richard already knows my main secret here - it is all hidden frames at work, my friend!

[dhunter93]

If I had the "minister" Felix eagle I would give it to you just to make the strobe effect stop

[oldflagswanted]

more direct method ???

...it is all hidden frames at work, my friend!

bnz.42:
Nice flashing jif work there, but I prefer the more direct method.

[Richard P]

Richard already knows my main secret here - it is all hidden frames at work, my friend!

bnz. 42 Please post your mailing address. I need to send a package to you. Thanks for not posting any more of those flashy thingies.

Richard

[Richard P]

Grant,

Thanks for your imput and sharing your eagles...wonderful examples.

Thanks so much for letting us know that Mr Hritz and Toncar are both in their 90's. I didn't think they were near that old...but, the wonders of plastic surgery. I will be sure and speak very loudly next time I see them.

Richard

[Felix]

the one on the named and documented tunic that felix posted .thanks .
felix made some good points about eagles that have been worn and so on.. trying too supper impose a eagle on top of another is ok to a point but as felix said water and wear will push things out of shape to one thats not worn ,

Yes, your eagle and tunic is very nice! You dont have to worry about that!
You also have a good sence of details and they eagles can vary depending on wear etc.

I would be happy to own that tunic!

Cheers,
Felix

[Felix]

There are not two exacly the same bullion insignias made because they all are done by hand. Yet they can be embroidered over same or similar templates. Depending on wear and exposure to the elements they will later on vary. Minty depot examples also vary, but of course not so much. That all comes clear if you animate a la Bnz style regarding a lot of the bullion insignias available. Still same style insignias share the same vital details. Less complicated insignias like bullion rune tabs can also vary, but not so much because they are easier to make. Still there are some wild examples among bullion rune tabs that probably a few would doubt. I could go on and compare many examples of bullion eagles, showing different wear, backing material and more.

Below I post two eagles made by the same maker in mint condition. Maker 122, which has done some really fine eagles IMO. Yet they have variances depending on which person who made the embroidey. Therefore details will vary within the same style. These eagles made by manufacturer 122 have different heads, different wing tips and different thickness of the upper wing line etc. Add a completely different light and the variances will become more clear. A lot of different things can trick they eye, and the best is of course to see in real. But images are what we have right here and right now.

I have tried to explain this and only a few has understod or looked for the right details IMO. Perhaps my skills to explain got in the way and that my English is not the best.

I still stand by my opinion that I expressed already from the start. I can not see it in another way from my perspective and knowledge. The eagles share the same vital details. Others might disagree and that is the nature of collecting.

I do not wish to insult anyone, but rather to explain my points. It has never been my aim to insult, but I do believe I have the right to explain and defend myself.

Please, lets continue this in a civilized manner from now on because this is not productive for any one. Lets forget whats been written regarding harsh language from all sides.

I take the responsibility for the heated discussion climate alone, and I hope there wont be any further insults from either side. I apologize for that.

We are after all here to learn, and I believe that all of us still have things to learn regardless of whom we are.

//Felix

P.s I have sent a PM to Patrick asking for better photos, source, real experience etc. I have not got any reply yet.