Japanese samurai sword dealers.

[Elvis]

Which ones do you reccomend? I would like to eventually pick up a pre 20th century katana one of these days. I have heard the market crashed a few years ago but the swords are still rather expensive. What would a nice sword cost. Not a special blade but a common nice looking one from that time frame.

Thanks for your help,

Erik

[Peter_Suciu]

Watch you buy. These are probably faked even more than German helmet and I'm being 100% serious. The number of fakes coming out China is amazing and every time they get better.

Here are some dealers I can recommend:

<!--StartFragment -->Kyoto Antiques
Robert and June Grasso
781-289-7755
http://www.kyotoantiques.com/

JapaneseSword.com
4957 Lakemont Blvd. Southeast, Suite C4 #328
Bellevue, WA 98006
http://www.japanesesword.com/

And here are some other sources for information:

Japanese Sword Society of the United States
http://www.jssus.org/

Jim Gilbert?s Tsuba Web Site
http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

Richard Stein?s Japanese Sword Index
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

SamuraiSword.com
http://www.samuraisword.com/

Sword.ne.jp
http://sword.ne.jp/

[Elvis]

Great. another minefield. I would imagine it would be rather easy to fake a blade. Almost makes me want to turn around now.


Thanks for the links,

Erik

[John F.]

Erik:

You might want to contact this guy out of San Antonio, TX. He specializes in "all things Japanese". He has no web-site but his email address is: masanori@satx.rr.com . I have delt with him before and he is a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. I attached his card for your convenience.

Hope this helps,

John

[John F.]

Erik:

You might also want to check out the August edition of Military Trader. There is a great article pertaining to the buying of Samuria Swords by our very own (WH Awards Forum Member) Peter Suciu.

John

[panzerzacker]

Hey Chief,

A widow who lives up the street from me has one in her basement, not for sale. I've never seen it, but from what her son tells me it's still in great shape with the exception that the jewels in the handle have been popped out by somebody (period theft). If I ever decide to buy one that's where I'm going...I have heard they're pretty well faked and I can see why. All I can say is make sure you buy a nice one and you shouldn't have a problem turning it around if you ever plan to resell.

I believe someone told me that alot of Japanese families have been trying to get these back recently. Since a majority of them are family heirlooms passed down over generations, I suppose they believe they have the "right" to reclaim them. Don't know if it's true but I've made sure anyone I know to have one keeps it on the down low just in case.


ZaCK

[Peter_Suciu]

John--
Thank you for the kudos. When I write about militaria I approach it the same way I do with everything else...loads of research. I also try to fact check as much as possible. With my daily writing that is easy but with this stuff it is harder.

The books of Stephen Turnbull and Kanzan Sato are MUST-READs for traditional Japanese swords, while those by Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory are the MUST-READs for military swords.

My wife collects tsuba, the hand guards of the Japanese swords. Her collection has grown a bit since we updated the site:
http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/tsuba_main.htm

[Peter_Suciu]

the jewels in the handle have been popped out by somebody (period theft). If I ever decide to buy one that's where I'm going...I have heard they're pretty well faked and I can see why. All I can say is make sure you buy a nice one and you shouldn't have a problem turning it around if you ever plan to resell.

Jewels in the handle? Zack are you sure that's a Japanese sword? It sounds Arab, possibly even Chinese but not really Japanese. This is quite a puzzle now. I've looked through the dozen or so Japanese sword books tonight that we have in our collection and I haven't seen any with true "jewels." Not saying that it isn't possible but this is very un-Japanese.

Likewise the swords would have never been "treated" with any theft during the samurai period. These were prized items passed down through the family. Not even a peasant would dare steal part of a warrior's sword.

I believe someone told me that alot of Japanese families have been trying to get these back recently. Since a majority of them are family heirlooms passed down over generations, I suppose they believe they have the "right" to reclaim them. Don't know if it's true but I've made sure anyone I know to have one keeps it on the down low just in case.

That issue of "reclaiming" the family swords is sort of misunderstood.

1) following the restoration of the emperor sword wearing was made optional and then later banned outright. The sword sort of feel out of favor and at the end of the 19th century many families were selling their ancestral swords as they became Westernized. This is when Dr. Bashford Dean began collecting these items. He was the curator of the Arms and Armor Gallery at the New York Metropolitian Museum of Art. When he died he left his collection to the museum and it currently has the largest collection of Samurai armor outside Japan. According to the current curator, who I interviewed about a year and a half ago, there are some families trying to get the swords back but these are in a small minority.

2) some ancestral blades were used during WWII but MOST of the war-time swords were actually produced in the 1920s and 1930s. And most of the ancestral blades were from the Edo period (the final era before the restoration). There weren't a whole lot of 1,000 year old swords with new military tangs in the South Pacific.

3) following the defeat of Japan in WWII all swords were essentially banned by the Allies. The Japanese officers were required to surrender their swords. Many were given to Allied POWs, and hence this is a reason so many made it to England. (I guess all those guys whistling at the beginning of Bridge on the River Kwai would go home with a sword)

4) There are expert sword makers today to carry on the tradition but for the most part the art of sword making is all but a memory. Japanese swords can still be, to the best of my knowledge (and I've been to Japan and asked) exported legally.

So I think while there are attempts to reclaim the swords this is very small. The signatures on the blades say who made it and possibly when (rust is used to date a sword as well), but this does NOT say who the sword belongs to, so the proof is very tough.

[Gary Cain]

Hello Peter,
Everything you said was absolutely correct! I will merely add to the excellent foundation you laid. Modern swords start at around 15,000 US dollars and you would have a wait of about two years for the vast majority of smiths. Seki Japan is still the home to the vast majority of smiths (though there are a few in Tokyo now) and it is a very interesting place to visit.
Before buying any Japanese sword you must buy a few books and learn the basics....or buy from a trusted dealer and get a guarantee. Old swords (Koto period) start at around 5 thousand and go up pretty quickly depending on type, Hamon(temper line) Ha (edge) etc. Shinto period start at three thousand, and Shin Shinto at about two thousand. These would be from reputable dealers and assume nothing special about the particular blade.
Hope this helps a little.

Gary

Jewels in the handle? Zack are you sure that's a Japanese sword? It sounds Arab, possibly even Chinese but not really Japanese. This is quite a puzzle now. I've looked through the dozen or so Japanese sword books tonight that we have in our collection and I haven't seen any with true "jewels." Not saying that it isn't possible but this is very un-Japanese.

Likewise the swords would have never been "treated" with any theft during the samurai period. These were prized items passed down through the family. Not even a peasant would dare steal part of a warrior's sword.

That issue of "reclaiming" the family swords is sort of misunderstood.

1) following the restoration of the emperor sword wearing was made optional and then later banned outright. The sword sort of feel out of favor and at the end of the 19th century many families were selling their ancestral swords as they became Westernized. This is when Dr. Bashford Dean began collecting these items. He was the curator of the Arms and Armor Gallery at the New York Metropolitian Museum of Art. When he died he left his collection to the museum and it currently has the largest collection of Samurai armor outside Japan. According to the current curator, who I interviewed about a year and a half ago, there are some families trying to get the swords back but these are in a small minority.

2) some ancestral blades were used during WWII but MOST of the war-time swords were actually produced in the 1920s and 1930s. And most of the ancestral blades were from the Edo period (the final era before the restoration). There weren't a whole lot of 1,000 year old swords with new military tangs in the South Pacific.

3) following the defeat of Japan in WWII all swords were essentially banned by the Allies. The Japanese officers were required to surrender their swords. Many were given to Allied POWs, and hence this is a reason so many made it to England. (I guess all those guys whistling at the beginning of Bridge on the River Kwai would go home with a sword)

4) There are expert sword makers today to carry on the tradition but for the most part the art of sword making is all but a memory. Japanese swords can still be, to the best of my knowledge (and I've been to Japan and asked) exported legally.

So I think while there are attempts to reclaim the swords this is very small. The signatures on the blades say who made it and possibly when (rust is used to date a sword as well), but this does NOT say who the sword belongs to, so the proof is very tough.

[panzerzacker]

Peter,


Firstly let me thank you for clearing the whole "reclamation" deal. I honestly know nothing about Japanese stuff, and so effectively I was spreading rumors. Maybe I was subcontiously trying to get people to keep them until I could swoop down with cash in my fist spouting some propaganda like "If you sell them to me I'll save them from the Japanese families! " In any case I'm very glad you've cleared that up, especially the heirloom part.

As for the jewels in the handle, I'm only going from what I heard. The man who brought it home was an officer in both Europe and the Pacific. I have no doubt that it's an original piece. Supposedly there are the settings for the stones or jewels still in tact. My guess would be a greedy Private, knowing that he couldn't keep the sword, popped them out so he could have something valuable anyway. In any case I am going from hearsay and will try to get her to let me see the sword sooner or later.

ZaCK

[Perry Floyd]

I talked at great length one time with Ed Hicks, to those that may know, a big Japanese armour and sword collector.

He mentioned the likelyhood of the age/type blades that were found in WWII officers mounts. 50% of the time it's a regular factory made blade with arsenal stamp, 40% of the time it a handmade blade of the modern era and 10% of the time you'll incounter one that the officer used his ancestral old handmade blade.

[Allan H.]

A widow who lives up the street from me has one in her basement, not for sale. I've never seen it, but from what her son tells me it's still in great shape with the exception that the jewels in the handle have been popped out by somebody (period theft).

Actually, this is one of those "urban myths" (OK, GI myths) that these swords came with jewels in the handle. I have even seen handles unwrapped or the cords cut off where the veteran or his family was looking for the jewels! I have no idea where the myth started, but it is wide spread among WWII veterans. When you look at the diamond shaped openings (where you see rayskin) on the handle, lots of times the veteran will assume that there were diamonds in there that have been popped out.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard about the diamonds in or under the handle of a Japanese sword.

I believe someone told me that alot of Japanese families have been trying to get these back recently. Since a majority of them are family heirlooms passed down over generations, I suppose they believe they have the "right" to reclaim them.

About four years ago, there was a huge news story that was picked up by the National wire services about a WWII Marine veteran who was returning his souvenir Samaurai sword to the family that had owned it prior to his liberating it.
The funny part of the story was that after this Marine flew all the way back to Japan and went through all of the trouble to get the blade through Japanese customs etc.and returned the blade to the Japanese family, the family turned around and sold the blade for some $30,000 US dollars.
As we all know, one family's priceless heirloom is another families "old army junk."
Allan

[Peter_Suciu]

When you look at the diamond shaped openings (where you see rayskin) on the handle, lots of times the veteran will assume that there were diamonds in there that have been popped out.

That makes sense in a way that makes no sense. But I can see how someone might think there were jewels in those spots. The sad part is some nice swords were probably destroyed as someone tore it apart. Then again, imagine how many swords were dumped and are at the bottom of the Pacific!

About four years ago, there was a huge news story that was picked up by the National wire services about a WWII Marine veteran who was returning his souvenir Samaurai sword...the family turned around and sold the blade for some $30,000 US dollars.

I heard that story before but the part of it being sold by the family is a myth. I did a search for this a couple of times and even used Lexus Nexus and I can't find anything.

As a journalist I tend to believe the part of the sword being sold for $30,000 as being made up. I've never seen it anywhere in print that the family sold the sword. Likewise I can't find anything on AP, UPI or Reuters about the family selling the sword.

Here is what I did find (Vet to retrn sword):
http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/we....RFMC_DSH.html

The story was picked on wires including at least UPI (United Press International):
http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/dis.../3f696db989cbd

This article goes on to suggest a value of $30,000+ for blades, and that might have fueled the myth:
http://www.samuraisword.com/intro.htm

I also came across this (http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/faq.htm):
"Unless you already know the Japanese soldier's family and their address, you probably can't. There are no significant records on who owned what sword during WW II, except for those possessed by shrines, the Emperor, etc. and they have already been accounted for. Also, most WW II period made swords, especially those with arsenal tang stamps (see military swords), can not be returned to Japan as the Japanese government considers them weapons and it is illegal for individuals to import weapons into Japan. Only those swords that are fully traditionally made can be imported back into Japan. It is best to learn about the sword and how to care for it so it can be preserved for future generations. The few, rare cases where swords have been returned to their previous Japanese owners are for those swords given as tokens of respect to US soldiers and occupation officials during the US occupation of Japan in the late 1940's and early 1950's."

[Matt Weber]

I just picked up a Japanese Katana. It has an unmarked blade, but is most likely Shin-Shinto period. It is not mint by any means, but appears to be all correct. I'll post pics of it later.

I have always been very interested in Japanese swords, and the Samurai in particualar. I spent 3 years in Okinawa when I was in the military, and I even got to see and meet some real life Samurai, and even met an actual Japanese sword smith in Osaka!

I would really like to know more information about Japanese military swords and Samauri swords. Particually the Shin-Shinto to WWII era military swords. I was wondering what books and references would provide the best information on these, and where can I obtain them from?

Thanks!

Matt

[Peter_Suciu]

I have always been very interested in Japanese swords, and the Samurai in particualar. I spent 3 years in Okinawa when I was in the military, and I even got to see and meet some real life Samurai, and even met an actual Japanese sword smith in Osaka!

I would really like to know more information about Japanese military swords and Samauri swords. Particually the Shin-Shinto to WWII era military swords. I was wondering what books and references would provide the best information on these, and where can I obtain them from?

I'd love to see the Shin-Shinto sword. That would be pretty much priceless at this point. As for books the titles I mentioned above are top-notch. They are great books. You can't get better than Kanzan Sato's book on the Japanese sword. One thing I'd add is the Shin-Shinto era to WWII era is quite an long period, with the Edo and Meiji periods in between. That would be akin to saying you have interest in British militaria from the Age of Discovery to WWII. Of course the Edo period was really a time post-Civil War and one of relative piece up until the restoration. The Meiji was the era of great change, the one that saw the final Samurai rebellion (like in the film The Last Samurai) and then the wars with China and Russia. A LOT of history to cover...and actually tons of changes in sword design.

And when you say you have met real Samurai I have to ask when you were in Japan. The Samurai class pretty much ended by the late 1880s, so even a young warrior would be well over 100 years old today.