GAU ESSEN, Large swastika, Croatian, Rumanian Buckles: SS Related ?

[David North]

"Gau Essen"

J P - thankyou for your observatons towards this most enigmatic buckle, to include the supposed history which of course is perfectly plausible. This is the first time however that I know of a recognised authority (and the premier towards SS!), not automatically assimilating or correlating the buckle with a SS private commission. Do you think that the SS association dictates the high value or intead, this distinct buckle is essentially 1 of 48. To my knowledge, there are currently 2 for sale on internet military sites (England and Germany) with the fully anticipated price tag. Regards, David

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello David,
If you are going to ask several book authors who wrote the Gau Essen buckle is SS related where they found this argument, you will end up playing ping-pong. Each individual says it is because the previous reliable author wrote so, and since it is a common consensus there was no reason to doubt it or to investigate in this direction. Now you are going to ask the same question to the former previous reliable author and you will get the same answer!?! For non authors, you already have results of what I know.
Regarding my own feelings toward this buckle been not SS related, it is rather simple. I can not conceive a SS item without strict relation to the corps (SS=corps in this message). In all those years of dealing/collecting/searching (in order) everytime I found something to the glory or remembrance to duty in the SS the corps is above anything (a bit like the USMC if you prefer), even the party. Look at period photos of SS barracks: which flag is floating above those? SS flag, not NSDAP flag. I even have in my collection a wooden item carved by an inmate in a KZ which was directly ordered by a SS officer for his home. The design of this wooden pice bears the SS runes at many areas along with other runic symbols - but not a single swastika. Take the SS evening clasp for the SS tuxedo: SS skull, SS motto, no swastika. And I can take many other examples like this. Now what about the Gau Essen buckle? Post sleeve and several other points of manufacture are suggesting the buckle is made before mid 30's, but not one of the very early buckles. So, the SS already had at least their motto recognized and their "logo" (runic SS) recognized. Only the SS eagle in its final design could had not been introduced at time of Gau Essen buckles manufacture (and even this introduction in 1936 did not change the SS Buckles eagle design which remained constant until the end of war, except on very few prototypes) . So, why there is strictly nothing recalling the SS on this buckle?? No motto, no runes, nothing. I cannot conceive this since in no instance I can believe been stationned in a city district is more important to the corps than the corps itself!!

Pricewise, regarding rarity of this buckle (even if there is around 50 of those) and the beauty of it (one needs to have one in hands to really appreciate the exquise quality of details) is justifying its price around $1500. How many collectors are going to spend over $1500 for an early nickel silver SS Officer buckle, without no special features, when 1000's are available in collections!! (and I keep silent the over $1000 spent for aluminum SS Officer buckles by many...)

If you are talking about the German one at Weitze, it is original.
If you are talking about the English one at MajorPLM, it is original (it is mine left in consignement)

Well, I guess I said all but, of course, I can be wrong.

[Derek Gloster]

SS Gau Essen buckle

Yes Tyler, I do have one.

[nellyp51]

Cool buckle

I will not pronounce myself on this particuliar buckle since it is not my field of interest or knowledge but if we read books concerning the 7th SS Div., especially some heavy loaded with first hand photos, we will notice that buckles shown are of the common SS variant. So, my own feeling is that, even if this buckle could be legitimately attached to the "Prinz Eugen" div., (why not) it was not an enforced rule. Furthermore the 7th was one of the few "freiwilligen" divisions to be held more as a "germanic" division than others. So, I don't think any reason to have another buckle than the common SS regulation.
Of course, this is only an opinion and my input can be dicarded.

[Robin Lumsden]

This buckle had nothing to do with the Prinz Eugen Division. It was worn by members of the Ethnic German Einsatzstaffel in Croatia. Going from memory, there's coverage about this group and its uniforms and insignia in Littlejohn's 'Foreign Legions' books, and an excellent article also appeared in the 'Military Advisor' a couple of years back. As for the motto, it was not uncommon for Nazi ethnic German groups abroad to hanker back to their traditional roots.

[David North]

Marc

Would it be possible to be provided with a reverse view of this most interesting and unusual buckle?

Regards,

David

[Harold Brouphy]

Kroatien buckle

Mark,
How does this buckle compare to the photos you took of mine? The front looks identical.
I know that you had been looking for one, nice going.
Harold

[Robert H]

???

[Robert H]

This buckle has nothing to do with an East foreign SS unit perhaps with the Prinz Eugen, they got the all the same buckles as the german Waffen-SS units over there. For my opinion it is a fantasy piece. What has the motto "in Treue fest" do do with the III.Reich ? That motto was just used in the time from the Kaisereich till 1918, and then just for the Bavarian armee and from no other part else in germany. What has then a particular bavarian part to do with a SS unit. I am sure no photo or docu exist or will show up to provide this buckle ever.

[Robin Lumsden]

This buckle is shown in the 1943 edition of the Jahrbuch der Deutschen Volksgruppe in Kroatien as the buckle of the Einsatzstaffel der DVK. It is not a fantasy.

[Marc verstraete]

For my opinion it is a fantasy piece. What has the motto "in Treue fest" do do with the III.Reich ? That motto was just used in the time from the Kaisereich till 1918, and then just for the Bavarian armee and from no other part else in germany. What has then a particular bavarian part to do with a SS unit. I am sure no photo or docu exist or will show up to provide this buckle ever.

Of course it is not a fantasy!!! These very scarce buckles are just unknown to most of the collectors because there are so few of them and because there is almost no period documentation on them. They are part of a series of buckles that include the officer version “blood und boden” motto SS type buckle, the Freikorps Denmark SS buckle with Danish SS motto, the D.V.G. in SUDETEN with reverted text, the Gau Essen,…….. Calling them SS is maybe not totally correct but these guys where at least as bad as the extermination commando’s and most of them where connected to the SS or ended up with the SS. They are as much SS buckles as the Flemish collaboration buckles with the SS runes on the front are SS buckle; no-one would pretend these last ones aren’t SS.

Most of these buckles where locally made and therefore they can vary in quality depending where and when they where made. I own two variations of the “in true fest” buckles in my collection and I know only four other ones in collections throughout the world. If someone else has such buckle, please let us know or post a picture. I will post a back picture when I have more time.

Marc

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Of course it is not a fantasy!!! the Gau Essen,…….. Calling them SS is maybe not totally correct Marc

Very interesting input from someone known for his position toward Gau Essen buckles been 100% SS related. What is the reason for this sudden U turn if I may ask?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Sorry, I forgot a mild backup of my above input

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=14094

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Still waiting for ANY evidence this buckle is SS related, ANY...

Keep on going, and going ... Feeling like the Energizer bunny

at least another try in the meantime with these threads:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=14095

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=27646

[Marc verstraete]

Marc

Would it be possible to be provided with a reverse view of this most interesting and unusual buckle?

Regards,

David

David, here the back of the buckle you requested. The construction is typical of this type of buckles but the material in which the catch and prongs are made can vary. The catch can be in brass or aluminium.

Marc