3 Deutscher Orden in one lot!!!!! Rarest of The Rare

[Jon. H]

But the RS made examples must be good as fillers when this is what
they are making today...


from ioffer.com (Where else, ebay?)
germanorder.jpg

[Gary Symonds]

All I'm seeking is evidence. If there is a book being planned for the future, great. How about some pictures now of known post war Souval examples. Is the picture posted by Rudolf Souval an known example? At least that is a start.

[SiPo]

Matovsky,

Warlord asked you a rather pertinent question that you seem to have either accidentally missed or purposely ignored. So, on Christophers behalf;

"have you examined the known original along side the Souval piece?"

Also, a question from me if I may? Is your research only conducted by pictures from dealers catalogues?

[WARLORD]

Dear Matovsky,


I thought we had posted the Souval copy. This is as in the thread. Roudolf Souval has posted the copy for us to see. Mr Hanson very elequently has brought to your attention the observation, have you had the two pieces in hand to compare?

Please, take this as no critisium, but you must understand two very serrious points:

The first, that the cross shown is a known Souval copy. This you can research for yourself. Placing it on the forum, will not change the situation. Robin has made his position clear. I would go with him on this. You quote his books. He is a very accredited author. I as WARLORD am just a "Johnny comer Lattley".

Secondly the only manufacturer of this award was Deumer. You can contact them as well as I. YOU WILL FIND THE TRUTH. ALSO TRY THE lUDENSHIED mUSSEUM. I AM SURE THEY WILL GIVE YOU THE PHOTOS. There is a cost for this, but I am sure you will be happy to fund your research.

Armed with this, you will be able to attribute what were and when, with authority.

I look forward to your research being made avalable.

[Jon. H]

Just got back from the jeweler. The post war souval i have is made in silver

[Gary Symonds]

g. hanson:
If the picture recently posted by Rudolf Souval, depicting a German Order with Swords is the Souval copy I would agree that is a postwar copy. The Order shown in Husken's Katalog is a period piece. We do not know who made it. These medals are different and not the same. The one in Husken's book is not the same as the so called Deumer "original". As with most medals manufactered by different makers, there are differences. Please explain why Husken would publish a picture of a repro in his book? I am still asking that question and nobody can answer it. Can you?

[Gary Symonds]

Warlord:
You told us you have the letter from Deumer and the pics from the museum. Now you are telling us that we have to order this stuff. Put your evidence on the table as I previously requested. Talk is cheap. Show us!

[Leroy]

This may confuse things, but in the last Hermann Historica auction, one of these was offered and said to have been made by Steinhauer & Luck, also of Ludenscheid. So did Deumer or S&L, or both, legitimately make these during the war?

[WARLORD]

Dear Matovsky, one of the pictures is already published. I would draw your attention to For Fuhrer and Fatherland, Political & Civil Awards of the Third Reich, updated. By Angolia, page 399 ref 226. This is one of the pictures obtained.

Again if you are truly interested in research tread the path and ask the questions, Talk is not cheap.

[Jon. H]

Dear Matovsky,

The last photo i posted is NOT a Souval copy. Its a crappy new replica offered from ioffer. I was only posting this to show how the repros are made today.

[Gary Symonds]

Mr. Warlord:
Thank you. Now I address your attention to Husken's Katalog of German Medals and Orders 3d edition, to page 417, for a maker's variation. Please explain. I'm still waiting for a posting of the documents you say you have. When will the collecting community be favored with additional historical information as to the German Order?

[Gary Symonds]

rudolf souval: thanks for the posting that your 3d class German Order is silver, which takes care of sjl's posting of 11/3, that it was "base metal". It certainly helps to make your own investigation without relying on other's opinions.

[RadarZ]

Heres pics from Bewertungs-Katalog

[Gary Symonds]

German Order Ribbon

That's right.................the different versions are different grades of the Order, not a reference to different makers.

Robin:
In your picture of the 2nd class German Order in your book, you depict the ribbon as the Blood Order ribbon, grand cross size. In view of the fact that there are no period pictures of the ribbon on the pictures of the funeral pillows that do exist of this Order, what is the historical basis that the Order used the Blood Order ribbon? Thank you,

[Robin Lumsden]

Robin:.......what is the historical basis that the Order used the Blood Order ribbon?

Shown in Dr. Doehle's book, 1945 edition. Colour illustration.